quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic What do you know of how the rest of the world likes to see you? And we're not talking the Bush administration but the American people.

Just a few short years ago, when the choice was either being part of a free country or soviet block country, the American way of life was by far the most popular dream for a lot of people around the world. Were we really doing anything different then as opposed to now in terms of our foreign policies? I have had friends from different parts of the world tell me that this "Anti-Americansim" has as much to do with pure jealousy of hating the guy on top as it has to do with anything else...and honestly, that makes a lot of sense to me. There is no more Soviet Union to balance out the "Top", so naturally, we're getting all the heat now.

It's just human nature to hate your neighbor with the better lawn and the nicer car...and to judge them as a result.

But let's face it; What makes the rest of the world think that they would behave any differently given the same economy and the same military powers that the U.S. has? Have any of the world powers throughout history ever acted any better or worse? And if not, isn't that more a statement about human nature then it is about "Americans"?

Last edited by donnybrasco on Aug-11-2005 at 00:10

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I don't quite see how you're addressing his arguments. As an \"American\" and a \"Libertarian\" myself, I don't see how laws and government contradict libertarian belief. What you seem to categorize as libertarian belief seems more closely aligned with anarchism.

haha, i wasnt meaning to address his arguments at all

and no, what i classify as libertarian thought is libertarian thought. you know, good ol stuff like john locke

the degree of privatisation prevalent in libertarian political theory creates a bunch of problematic issues. my favourite being that the basic rights that libertarians espouse as fundamental and inalienable are eroded by an unfettered & all-powerful free market. and an unfettered & all-powerful free market is the end result of classic libertarian thought.

meh. i just wanted to bash a liberal-bashing libertarian is all coz a true liberal is a libertarian with a bit of common sense imo

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^^^^ I actually think that you and I may be more alike then you realize.

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Really? I wish I could recall that poll of the media done just about a year ago, where it was found that about 75% consider themselves to have a "Liberal" POV...

You crack me up, man.

Yeah right, "75% consider themselves liberal."

NOT ONE TV station/paper ever mentioned the Downing Memo. [It took British press to mention that, then the Post did a follow-up]
NOT ONE TV station/paper showed true Abu Ghraib photos [only foreign press did]
NOT ONE TV station/paper ever mentioned THIS story (in fact you've probably never even heard about this)

FACT from Washington Post columnist Jefferson Morley: An American who wants to keep abreast of what his country is doing will get much more information about it from foreign news outlets around the world.

"75% Liberal" MY F*ING ASS, man

They're probably "liberal" compared to the American definition of "conservative"

Last edited by HardTranceProd on Aug-11-2005 at 17:22

^^^(Been away for a few days due to a computer crash, so please forgive me for resurrecting old threads, but...)

I think you under-estimate the desire of the liberal element in our media to shoot down the Conservative element of our government.They hardly play honest, fair or nice...which leads me to believe that if anything, they and some of the foreign media must be quite bias at times.

And I don't think our media is holding back anything, so your implication that they are (whether out of ignorrance, or a sense of some abstract loyalty to conservatives), makes little sense as well.............unless you believe that it's all a grand conspiracy, which is the one thing I love so much about foreigners, lol; Their ability to think that the same Americans who can't get their heads out of their asses are yet capable of grand conspiracies involving thousands of people who are, for some reason, willing to play along and never tell the truth about said conspiracies??

Interesting hypothesis.

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco ^^^(Been away for a few days due to a computer crash, so please forgive me for resurrecting old threads, but...) I think you under-estimate the desire of the liberal element in our media to shoot down the Conservative element of our government.

Yeah, you're probably right (actually I'd be happy if you were right), but whatever this 'desire' is, it can't be compared with the intensity and fervor of the conservative element to shoot down the liberal element.

As a matter of fact, all the "liberal element" is doing is trying to contain, rather than attack. The conservatives, vice-versa.

Bill Clinton circa 2000: "When a Democrat sits in the White House, it feels like he's renting property. When a Republican sits there, it feels like he owns the place."

quote:

And I don't think our media is holding back anything, so your implication that they are (whether out of ignorrance, or a sense of some abstract loyalty to conservatives), makes little sense as well.............

Right, I don't think it's a 'conspiracy' or anything foolish like that, I just think that the American media is very cowed and afraid, or reluctant, to pursue some important issues. So much for 'free press.' It all comes from the fact that Americans are very deferential toward authority and especially the White House, and dare not challenge the government.

Off the top of my head, not one TV nework in America dared talk about a 1980s photo of Rumsfeld having a handshake with Saddam Hussein. Not one news talk show host ever brought it up.

(In contrast, the British have NO respect for their government and challenge it in any way they want, including the press.)

Last edited by HardTranceProd on Aug-17-2005 at 14:37

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco Just a few short years ago, when the choice was either being part of a free country or soviet block country, the American way of life was by far the most popular dream for a lot of people around the world.

Typical American naiveté.

You might be surprised to know that Western Europe has a lot more in common with the Soviet way of life (e.g., Socialism, culture, etc.) than it does with the United States.

I'm talking about the Soviet way of life in the 70s, 80s, and 90s (i.e. not talking about concentration camps).

These days, if the choice were between the American way of life (increasingly difficult access to contraception and controversy about abortions) and the non-American way of life (free access to contraception and no controversy about abortions), what do you think most people in Europe and AIDS-ravaged Asia would choose?

Last edited by HardTranceProd on Aug-17-2005 at 14:01

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd Typical American naiveté. You might be surprised to know that Western Europe has a lot more in common with the Soviet way of life (e.g., Socialism, culture, etc.) than it does with the United States. I'm talking about the Soviet way of life in the 70s, 80s, and 90s (i.e. not talking about concentration camps). These days, if the choice were between the American way of life (increasingly difficult access to contraception and controversy about abortions) and the non-American way of life (free access to contraception and no controversy about abortions), what do you think most people in Europe and AIDS-ravaged Asia would choose?

Weren't concentration camps a part of the USSR during at least the early 1970s?

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Originally posted by ali92 Weren't concentration camps a part of the USSR during at least the early 1970s?

no, they pretty much ended in the 60s and then the thaw started

pkc, you really have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to capitalism and libertarians going hand in hand. Just ask Milton Friedman, he is a prominant libertarian and won a nobel prize for his studies of economics, where he strongly supports capitalism and free markets.

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Lost Souls

quote:

Off the top of my head, not one TV nework in America dared talk about a 1980s photo of Rumsfeld having a handshake with Saddam Hussein. Not one news talk show host ever brought it up.

I'd agree with you that our media isn't always puting forth a lot of effort to get the truth (as has been under-scored by people like Bob Woodward in his book "The Boys on the Bus" back in the day, on up through to recent history with Dan Rather and CBS' debacle about GWB's National Guard service), but, that being said, they are quick to ASSUME a lot based on their more often than not "liberal" notions and their desire/need to be the first ones to get a story out, they pad a lot...quotes like "Sources say" and "according to reports we've received"...more often than not, these "sources" are just rumors and assumptions the reporters themselves have made!

I don't expect the media to be perfect, but I see all kinds of inuendo and flat-out lies and flasehoods reported every day on subjects I KNOW they have information wrong on, and they know it too to a large extent I believe! Gun control would be a great example of one...perhaps the absurd support for shakedown artists like Jesse Jackson would be another....the list is endless of the Liberal bent on our so called "News".

In this country, Liberal=thinking with your heart, not your head...and that comes through in the news...annoying.

Last edited by donnybrasco on Aug-18-2005 at 20:58