quote:

And no, when you start working in a public environment building a reputation outweighs the financial. If people get to know you and have a good time and you build up a following, that is what puts you in a position to negotiate financial compensation. If you draw a crowd, promoters and club owners have to take you seriously. Because if you draw a crowd you can take that crowd with you. I have done it, and I know others who have.

very much agreed.

basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it.

the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work.

if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else.

a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing.

i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it.

i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative very much agreed. basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it. the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work. if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else. a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing. i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it. i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

Good Post.

___________________
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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative very much agreed. basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it. the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work. if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else. a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing. i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it. i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

well said.

I understand that djs invest money in becoming a dj....buying music, equipment etc... and its always nice to see a return on that money spent. But if a bedroom dj, someone just starting out in his local scene is asked to play a gig and he immediately asks what the pay is, his priorities (in my opinion) are way off.

There is a pretty defined DJ hierarchy in the scene today...the more established djs get booked as headlinders and get paid the most money and play the peaktime slots, because they are the draw. A kid just starting out has to pay his dues, start at the bottom and work their way up to a place where people actually know who they are and are willing to pay money to hear you play.

As a promoter / dj so far, I have not thrown a party with the primary goal of making money...my goal is to throw a great party, period, and I'd like to break even. I will not name names, but I am currently dealing with a contract for an upcoming party next month with a dj who is in the top half of the Top 100 djs that were just announced...this is a weekday party and we settled on a $600 fee...a top 50 DJ for christs sake! Now, compare this djs popularity...one of the 50 most peopular djs on EARTH, to some new guy who has played out once in his life at a lounge...Do the math and based on relative dj status, how much should that new guy get paid to open up for one of the most well known djs in the world? If someone offered me that gig I would pass out, let alone ask how much I was getting paid for it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative very much agreed. basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it. the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work. if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else. a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing. i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it. i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

Phenomenal post... You just reaffirmed my own personal convictions on the subject... I've been the subject of ridicule before for the "If I'm good enough that they'll have me, I'd play for free just because of how much I enjoy it" attitude, as it seems a BIG motivating factor for a lot of the guys out and about around here is money, and not a love for what they do...

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quote:

Originally posted by Derivative very much agreed. basilf it is not killing the craft. killing the craft of writing music and spinning records is thinking that you should be paid before you do anything. sorry, but smoking up and spinning records when inspiration hits doesnt cut it in the DJ industry just as it doesnt cut it in any industry period. you have to graft for it. the people i respect the most in this industry are the ones that made it on their own initiative. the people who didnt give a shit about pay, or put it on hold because its something they love doing and it doesnt feel like work. or who worked a shit 9 to 5 and still had the dedication to practice spinning when they got home from work. if i was employing someone, i would be impressed if someone would go through hardship for what they love doing. because it says alot about the character of that person and very likely what their work is like. how much effort they put into it, how meticulous they are. whether or not they are the type of person who would try to outdo themselves and everyone else. a person who will spin for free, and practice every day until he can get a residency on top of earning money by working a 9 to 5 says to me: this guy is hard working. this guy really loves what he is doing and has the drive to stick around in this industry and not get bored and quit. this guy is humble. this guy isnt arrogant enough to presume that it is his right to get money for the service he is providing - this person realises that in the real world you *earn* your place. this guy doesnt make any excuses for what he is doing. i guess thats what separates a real professional DJ and someone who just beatmatches some records when he feels like it. i can tell you right now that if i was in zizack or nem's position, i would always hire that person instead of you. because that dude really really *really* wants it. and i sense that you dont. otherwise you would do what he does.

#1 dj booth post of the year, that was very much a excellent post and is so true in what you have spoken about! i have very much the same view!

Well If you say so. I wouldn't pretent to know your craft. I did say ASK not DEMAND even a small amount. I actually got into DJing because I love music and I don't expect to make money. Its quite the opposite I expect to lose money. And I am willing to work for free, because I am going to be spinning at a fundrasier for hurricane katrina. But if I found out that they were going to hire someone, but got me because I'll do it for free. I would have said no out of respect for the other DJ.

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The language is trance
Each track a word
The turntables...
My voice.

quote:

Originally posted by zizack well said. I understand that djs invest money in becoming a dj....buying music, equipment etc... and its always nice to see a return on that money spent. But if a bedroom dj, someone just starting out in his local scene is asked to play a gig and he immediately asks what the pay is, his priorities (in my opinion) are way off. There is a pretty defined DJ hierarchy in the scene today...the more established djs get booked as headlinders and get paid the most money and play the peaktime slots, because they are the draw. A kid just starting out has to pay his dues, start at the bottom and work their way up to a place where people actually know who they are and are willing to pay money to hear you play. As a promoter / dj so far, I have not thrown a party with the primary goal of making money...my goal is to throw a great party, period, and I'd like to break even. I will not name names, but I am currently dealing with a contract for an upcoming party next month with a dj who is in the top half of the Top 100 djs that were just announced...this is a weekday party and we settled on a $600 fee...a top 50 DJ for christs sake! Now, compare this djs popularity...one of the 50 most peopular djs on EARTH, to some new guy who has played out once in his life at a lounge...Do the math and based on relative dj status, how much should that new guy get paid to open up for one of the most well known djs in the world? If someone offered me that gig I would pass out, let alone ask how much I was getting paid for it.

I'm guessing i get to design the flyer for it?

___________________
Fortuna Favet Fortibus.

wow! can't say i agree at all with Derivate or any of you agreeing with him. but i guess people are just different then and have different opinions/views. nothing that can/should be done about it. i agree with
Basilf1 on this one.
oh and one reason i like to keep djing as a hobby only is that i've never believed in making your hobby/favorite pasttime your work as then what usually happens is that the fun of it is lost at some point. but i guess that's just me then.

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nah thats not just you. everyone is entitled to their own opinion and many people are looking at the subject from a different angle. and i can relate to that.

but for some very fortunate people, their professional life is their hobby. thats a wonderful position to be in where you are making money from something you love doing but as with every profession ive had experience with - this is rare. many will grow to hate it i guess, but thats the selective process in action. only the people willing to stick it out will get a pay packet from their hobby.

but really the only DJs i have any kind of interest in are the ones that bring new stuff to the table. the ones that are personally speaking, enjoyable to watch and listen to. i met raiden (underground dnb producer) briefly about 2 years back - he was in the crowd at the joiners for some no name event and me and some others managed to ID him. an aquaintance (hatty) was spinning for free at the end of the night and played 2 raiden tunes (pitbull attack and fallin'). one of the nicest people you will ever meet with all the talent in the world. but yea, he did that when he was a nobody. and hatty is also going to go far because ive seen him practice for hours in a day. and he regularly works for free around the southampton area. i like his sets and so do my friends - we turned out to all of them to see him spin. it also helped that we knew he was going to play tunes we liked. so theres already a small crowd following him around town now. give it a couple of years and ill bet that guy is earning off it. but he put the work in and deserves every success. hes a big raiden fan too so getting to play out to one of his musical heroes must have been immense.

hearing it from raiden himself just reaffirmed that.

I flew from VA to CA to DJ. I had to pay for my plane ticket, lodging, just about everything. I didnt get paid for my 6 hour set. It gave me something great for my resume though. I was 16 at the time.

quote:

Originally posted by WirelessEyes I flew from VA to CA to DJ. I had to pay for my plane ticket, lodging, just about everything. I didnt get paid for my 6 hour set. It gave me something great for my resume though. I was 16 at the time.

I think That's a Little Extreme, in this case you are paying money to play.

I won't mind playing for free at the beginning, although I would like to at least get 10 dollars a Day, or whatever, anyway I think I will enjoy it, but hey at least I need money for the Taxi!! jajaja.

If I were starting wich I want to int he future, I wouldn't deny gigs becasue they don't pay me, I think it's veyr important to play so people can get to know you, and anyway I think I will enjoy it to play in front of a crowd.

I've been listening electronusic music for years, and still I don't get gigs online, I just Want to practice enough untill I feel I can go out and make and outstanding performance.

I want to prepare to give people a good show, Hopefully I expect to be ready next year =).

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Here are my latest mixes:
Pepa - Pure Bliss (June 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Visual Thoughts (March 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Trippin' Again

Mash-ups:
Perasma Vs BT - Swing 2 Gravity (Pepa Live Mash-up)
I Trance You!