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Originally posted by Spirit5 I want to weigh in, like I do with many of these threads about criticisms and people complaining about the music. People have different tastes, however, we need to be respectful of others. Just because something is beautiful and uplifting, doesn't mean it's crap or should be labeled as cheese. Just because something is dark and fast, doesn't mean it can't be appreciated and enjoyed equally. My biggest argument on here is that trance means different things to different people, but it has a common root. There's different sounds in trance, with the sub genres, just like other styles such as Drum N' Bass. I'm tired of people labeling melodic prog "McProg" as the thread on here talks about. Whats wrong with melodies? I mean people can choose to not listen to melodic music, and enjoy the gritter, more underground sounds, but why, if something is melodic, does it have be labeled "cheese" or "McProg" or whatever you want to call it? There seems to be those on here who really like this music for it's melodies, those that really like it for it's beat, and then others who enjoy both. Edit: I'm not into everything they play on ASOT, I don't listen to it. I don't listen to Armin. I just find certain tracks I like, that I feel aren't so "typical" but are still good productions that have some melody and a good beat. If someone thinks Micro de Govia's productions, like his latest "Vital Spark" is "Cheesey" or "McTrance" then that's comparing it to real cheese, like Groove Coverage, there's no similarities. It is certaintly not low quality garbage...doesn't sound like it was produced in 10 minutes. Doesn't have typical trance riffs either. I stay away from those now...

I think you are totally missing the point about the disposition behind the "McProg" term. It is NOT about dissing the melodic and atmospheric parts found in progressive house/trance, not at all. Instead, it is about the lack of production, innovation, and credibility that most, if not all the progressive music (or really, what is hailed as being progressive right now) has nowadays. Take a listen to these tracks:

Tetraflux - From The Past Into The Present Future
Paul Rogers - Lazy Monday
Ortus - Pangia
Weekend World - The Word
Ariane - Eternity
Tocharian - Arcadia
Pako & Frederik - Friday
Moonface - Synchronized Knowledge

...these tracks are all examples of progressive with melody, yet they have creativity and more of a professional and refined feel to back them up, almost as if musical quality was of major importance to the producer... and it definitely shows. Now, compare these tracks to the latest wave of "progressive" producers such as Markus Schulz, G&D, Probspot, Ozgur Can, and Perry O'Neil and there is no question that something is definitely missing from the camp of Markus clones. Their music tends to seem more amateurish, trite (vocally speaking), and overall just not really gratifying enough to leave a long lasting impression. It is because of this new bland and amateurish sound that started around the beginning or so of 2004 with GDJB and ASOT that brought on the whole McProg label, because this music is essentially the McDonald's of the progressive house/trance of 1999-2003.

This lack of originality and seemingly use of preset material (possibly laziness too?) is the cause of the uproar, not the melodies. However, I will say that the melodies found in the McProg group of songs are indeed shit mostly and sound very much like a 12 year old playing a Fisher Price xylophone instead of sounding more professional, but that is a side point altogether. If Markus or G&D would keep with the level of composition and creation that the tracks years ago had and lost the "cash-grab" commerical triteness that all of their tunes have, then I'm sure there really would be no problem. But unfortunately, that's not the case at all and therefore yes, those songs can be considered cheesy.

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Originally posted by DJ Intrigue I think you are totally missing the point about the disposition behind the "McProg" term. It is NOT about dissing the melodic and atmospheric parts found in progressive house/trance, not at all. Instead, it is about the lack of production, innovation, and credibility that most, if not all the progressive music (or really, what is hailed as being progressive right now) has nowadays. Take a listen to these tracks: Tetraflux - From The Past Into The Present Future Paul Rogers - Lazy Monday Ortus - Pangia Weekend World - The Word Ariane - Eternity Tocharian - Arcadia Pako & Frederik - Friday Moonface - Synchronized Knowledge ...these tracks are all examples of progressive with melody, yet they have creativity and more of a professional and refined feel to back them up, almost as if musical quality was of major importance to the producer... and it definitely shows. Now, compare these tracks to the latest wave of "progressive" producers such as Markus Schulz, G&D, Probspot, Ozgur Can, and Perry O'Neil and there is no question that something is definitely missing from the camp of Markus clones. Their music tends to seem more amateurish, trite (vocally speaking), and overall just not really gratifying enough to leave a long lasting impression. It is because of this new bland and amateurish sound that started around the beginning or so of 2004 with GDJB and ASOT that brought on the whole McProg label, because this music is essentially the McDonald's of the progressive house/trance of 1999-2003. This lack of originality and seemingly use of preset material (possibly laziness too?) is the cause of the uproar, not the melodies. However, I will say that the melodies found in the McProg group of songs are indeed shit mostly and sound very much like a 12 year old playing a Fisher Price xylophone instead of sounding more professional, but that is a side point altogether. If Markus or G&D would keep with the level of composition and creation that the tracks years ago had and lost the "cash-grab" commerical triteness that all of their tunes have, then I'm sure there really would be no problem. But unfortunately, that's not the case at all and therefore yes, those songs can be considered cheesy.

Ok I understand what your saying...I guess. However, I didn't like Markus Schulz's new stuff, his own productions. I'm not into all of Perry O'Neil's stuff either, a few stuff like Wave Force. I am more basing this off of a few producers who I feel make good, quality stuff and don't just rush out productions. Perry O'Neil may be a guy that would be considered "Cashing in" since he has been making a lot of tracks lately, and I will give it to you, they are not that great. But would u consider tracks like "Foreplay" by Probspot? Crap? Ok maybe in your opinion, but some people, like me, enjoy some tracks that have a catchy melody and border between prog and epic. I listened to some of those tracks and they seem okay, but they don't have the magic I find in some tracks such as..

Probspot - Foreplay
Kalafut & Fygle - 3579 KM, Astra, Lullaby
Micro de Govia - Vital Spark
Peter McCowan - Identify, Lonesome Horizon
Matthew Adams - Sunscape (Alucard Remix)
Hydroid - Blue Tubes, Incurved
Ljungqvist - Society
Mark Otten - Mushroom Therapy (Lightscape Mix)
Rio Addicts - Crossroads
Ahmet Ertenu - Why

Really what's wrong with these tracks? Yeah the melody is more apparent, yeah they have breakdowns, but from a musical-listening standpoint, they are quite good. I guess I look for what works for me as far as a listening experience, not just something that goes down on the dance floor. Something in the realm of telling stories, giving people an aural and visceral experience. I'm looking for something that combines both the highly melodic and euphoric feel of epic trance with the atmosphere and deepness of progressive, and to me, these tracks do it! Sure there's crap out there, sure it might not be what you like, it might not be of the super deep and rhythmic vareity, but they are tunes that have good melodies and are emotional. I really don't see what's wrong with that. I was thinking today while driving and listening to a compilation of Hydroid tracks...

There's some who look for this music for dance based purposes, and that stuff is the more rhythmic variety of dance music, then there's the more listening variety, slower tempos or faster tempos, but the reliance isn't just on a beat, but on a melody that is catchy, something that gets stuck in your head. This is no different than vocal music or classical music where you hear a song and it is identifiable. It can be catchy, without sounding cheesy as well. I'm just not looking for stuff so subtle that to me, I can't enjoy it as a listening experience.

This stuff works for me for listening music, considering I haven't come far with my mixing yet, as far as playing out, so for now, I look for stuff I can mix and listen to since who am I playing for..to make them dance? no one. So I look for stuff I can listen to, that is still electronic, but a reliance is on a melody, not just a beat..rhythm or a deep atmosphere with a subtle melody, I like something I can hear, can hum and enjoy. That doesn't mean I look for anything out there with a melody, there's many big epic trance stuff I don't enjoy as much anymore, and the really cheesy stuff I can't stand. I like this stuff because it is something I can identify with, it is a next step for me after being into epic trance for so many years. This is just me...to reach your own.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Feb-06-2006 at 23:41

Maybe people are reading a little bit too much into all this. We don't like the music, you do. And that pretty much sums a good part of it.

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