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Originally posted by PvD2005 I think it is actually immature kids in some dark corner of the world trying to take the piss out of a style of music they don’t fully understand.

That could be seen as valid criticism if it wasn't for what's in bold - that's just not true at all. Most people who take the piss out of "mcprog" have been long time listeners of progressive trance, or even liked "mcprog" in the beggining, then grew out of it. We understand it very well..

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Originally posted by paranoik0 That could be seen as valid criticism if it wasn't for what's in bold - that's just not true at all. Most people who take the piss out of "mcprog" have been long time listeners of progressive trance, or even liked "mcprog" in the beggining, then grew out of it. We understand it very well..

Well I'm someone whose grown out of epic trance a little. Still enjoy it but not as much. I'm also someone who owns and listens to a lot of progressive trance. Acutally at the same time I was into Tiesto and Oakenfold, Corsten and Armin, I was also into Sasha & Digweed, Dave Seaman, Nick Warren, Anthony Pappa, some Sander K, James Holden and a few others. I've always tossed between listening to epic and listening to prog, and then when I started hearing more melodic stuff like Probspot, Joni Ljungqvist, Mark Otten, Alucard, Kalafut & Fygle, Hydroid, "some" Markus Schulz and Elevation, etc, is when I realized that this stuff is a combination of the two styles i've enjoyed since 98, when I first got into this music. Yeah it doesn't quite have the energy of epic, yeah it's not "super deep or sophisticated" as the proggiest of prog, but it's logical for someone like me, to be drawn to stuff that combines both. Sure in another few years I might grow out, but you never know, in another few years this music might become more mature. You might be seeing a new "listening" style of trance that isn't made for just club consumption, but rather for home or soundtrack use. It happened to techno, I'm sure it will happen (or is happening) to trance. Heck Chicane I think was the one who started moving trance beyond the dancefloor (he was going in that direction), but sadly I haven't heard anything from him in six years.

Just to let you know, i'm NOT a huge fan of Markus Schulz, his new productions don't do much for me. I'm not a G&D fan either, ASTRC was too overplayed, and I really don't consider it "trance", that or "Beautiful Things". Nor do I listen to Armin anymore (not a huge fan anymore), I haven't listened to ASOT in over a year. I just search around and look up various songs on Beatport and AudioJelly and occasionally download a set.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Well I'm someone whose grown out of epic trance a little. Still enjoy it but not as much. I'm also someone who owns and listens to a lot of progressive trance. Acutally at the same time I was into Tiesto and Oakenfold, Corsten and Armin, I was also into Sasha & Digweed, Dave Seaman, Nick Warren, Anthony Pappa, some Sander K, James Holden and a few others. I've always tossed between listening to epic and listening to prog, and then when I started hearing more melodic stuff like Probspot, Joni Ljungqvist, Mark Otten, Alucard, Kalafut & Fygle, Hydroid, "some" Markus Schulz and Elevation, etc, is when I realized that this stuff is a combination of the two styles i've enjoyed since 98, when I first got into this music. Yeah it doesn't quite have the energy of epic, yeah it's not "super deep or sophisticated" as the proggiest of prog, but it's logical for someone like me, to be drawn to stuff that combines both. Sure in another few years I might grow out, but you never know, in another few years this music might become more mature. You might be seeing a new "listening" style of trance that isn't made for just club consumption, but rather for home or soundtrack use. It happened to techno, I'm sure it will happen (or is happening) to trance. Heck Chicane I think was the one who started moving trance beyond the dancefloor (he was going in that direction), but sadly I haven't heard anything from him in six years. Just to let you know, i'm NOT a huge fan of Markus Schulz, his new productions don't do much for me. I'm not a G&D fan either, ASTRC was too overplayed, and I really don't consider it "trance", that or "Beautiful Things". Nor do I listen to Armin anymore (not a huge fan anymore), I haven't listened to ASOT in over a year. I just search around and look up various songs on Beatport and AudioJelly and occasionally download a set.

you really should check out Fluids back catalouge. they released alot of progressive with melodic touch.

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After researching through recommended threads I’m looking at my questions so far and most of have answered very well. From what I understand mcprog was a term originated by Pio as an analogy to mc donalds and the cheesy sound. Mcprog is often synonymous with the word American progressive.

The majority who answered my second question said Markus Schulz and Armin Van Buuren.

For my last question I noticed a pattern of negativity when it came to mcprog. Most of you did not give any examples of the good side to the mcprog sound. In fact after reading countless pages of related threads there are two reasons for the dislike. One is that the music has been played out too death and two is that it is too much of a formulaic prepackaged sound.

Moving on, I’d like to add my own conclusion to this music as I see it fitting that there are always two sides to a story. First of all the music was unique and had an original sound. Let’s use Michael Jackson as an example. As he broke away from his brothers and started his own solo career he had hit after hit singles. One of the reasons for his success was because he invented his own sound. If you ask anybody to classify his music you will never get a straight answer because it is generally unclassifiable and didn’t fit into any category. All that was known is that it was very popular music or pop for short. In a similar sense the new progressive sound being put out by Markus also did not have a name to begin with until a trend, limited to this website, began to grow which was ‘marketed’ by several other users and coined as mcprog. Officially this music is yet to be categorized and for now is known simply as progressive.

Many here contest that the music is formulaic, but what people don’t realize is that most music is formulaic. Otherwise we could not tell the difference between R&B and Rap or Rap and Hip-Hop or Hip-Hip and Country music or Country music and trance. You get the picture. If music was not formulaic everything would sound like one huge bucket of noise.

Another pattern I noticed was the artists that were mentioned. The emphasis was on Probspot, Gabriel & Dresden, and Perry O’ Neil. But what they failed to mention were the other artists such as:

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Orginally Posted By DJ Intrigue Bill Hamel Thomas Penton Ben Camp Steve Porter Chris Fortier Neil Kolo Randall Jones & The Tigerhook Corp. Pat Foosheen Blackwatch Medway D:Fuse Jimmy van M Saeed & Palash etc... I hardly think the above producers fall into the same category of Markus Schulz and Gabriel & Dresden. So, the newly formed genre name of "McProg" should stand, while the term "American Progressive" would be a disgrace to the decent US producers like above in the context of this thread.

And lets not forget some of the non-U.S. contributors

James Holden
Derek Howell
Shiloh
Habersham

If you notice there are a lot of Americans on that list which appear on some of your playlists even though you claim dislike towards the music. Personally, I believe this is the true sound that personified the young, but growing untitled progressive music.

It’s also sad that the same people who want EDM to evolve/grow are the same people who resort to suppressing the new forms of music. I understand that people grow out of certain styles of music, but don’t destroy it for others.

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Orginally Posted By TOR Many fans [of Britney Spears] consider her music great while we consider it atrocious. Quality is a subjective notion.

Which is why what may be shit to you is quality to others and trust me if the music is that bad it will die just like other genres of music did (i.e. disco, freestyle, classic house, etc).

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Orginally Posted By Spirit5 What I don't understand about about this labeling is that people on here think trance should evolve, there should be some new ideas, hasn't the sound evolved with this stuff? The sound might not be exactly "new" but it has combined the best of both worlds to offer something for people, like myself, that have listened to over the years, both epic, melodic trance and progressive trance and house, and enjoy both. Thats one of the reasons why I appreciate some of these new artists….Mark Otten's sound is quite new, but it has elements of both epic, melodic trance and progressive trance and house. The same goes to Probspot, Kalafut & Fygle, some Benz & MD and others.

This is exactly what I was emphasizing. It’s great that you notice this too.

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Orginally Posted By Erratik

Thanks Erratik for those really great sources, I learned a lot.

The purpose of this thread was to educate me on what mcprog is and what I said above is more of a neutral type of statement since I wasn’t here to bash or praise mcprog. I simply wanted to point out some inconsistencies in some of your arguments. All in all, I’d like to thank all you guys for the information and interesting viewpoints.

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Originally posted by stevieboy32808 Another pattern I noticed was the artists that were mentioned. The emphasis was on Probspot, Gabriel & Dresden, and Perry O’ Neil. But what they failed to mention were the other artists such as: (...) And lets not forget some of the non-U.S. contributors James Holden Derek Howell Shiloh Habersham If you notice there are a lot of Americans on that list which appear on some of your playlists even though you claim dislike towards the music. Personally, I believe this is the true sound that personified the young, but growing untitled progressive music.

Uhm, but that list is mostly consisted of respectable progressive producers, not "mcprog". So i don't see your point, people have never labeled them that since the beggining. "Mcprog" isn't a bash against USA neither. It's just that several of the artists that started the thing were based there. That very post you quoted was exactly arguing that "american progressive" wasn't a good name for the music since none of those artists made that kind of music.. yet were american, and progressive.

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Originally posted by paranoik0 Uhm, but that list is mostly consisted of respectable progressive producers, not "mcprog". So i don't see your point, people have never labeled them that since the beggining. "Mcprog" isn't a bash against USA neither. It's just that several of the artists that started the thing were based there. That very post you quoted was exactly arguing that "american progressive" wasn't a good name for the music since none of those artists made that kind of music.. yet were american, and progressive.

At the time I proposed the term, few of those listed progressive artists were part of anything particularly American. They were satellites of the UK progressive mainstream, and didn't get a whole lot of attention from the domestic scene. "American Progressive" was meant to specify something more specifically native to the US, and evoke the low-quality notions of American products, which fit the Gabriel & Dresden / Schulz sound: cheap in quality, US in origin.

In retrospect, I've abandoned the term, because McProg very quickly moved past US borders as Andy Moor and other European producers picked up on the style.

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Originally posted by Cobalt At the time I proposed the term, few of those listed progressive artists were part of anything particularly American. They were satellites of the UK progressive mainstream, and didn't get a whole lot of attention from the domestic scene. "American Progressive" was meant to specify something more specifically native to the US, and evoke the low-quality notions of American products, which fit the Gabriel & Dresden / Schulz sound: cheap in quality, US in origin. In retrospect, I've abandoned the term, because McProg very quickly moved past US borders as Andy Moor and other European producers picked up on the style.

Welldone Mr. President.

i dont quite understand the american assosiation either until cobalt just cleared that up..thanks. maybe it should have just stayed in association with them though as i think moor's productions are leagues ahead, tracks like superfly, my world etc cannot be called 'cheap' and if McProg is supposed to be a negative name (judging by the 'cheap in quality' comment) then there are lots of artists that shouldnt be classed as McProg.

and people like james holden are now nothing to do with trance or progressive...have you heard any of his recent productions / sets?

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Originally posted by PvD2005 and people like james holden are now nothing to do with trance or progressive...have you heard any of his recent productions / sets?

It's true, Holden nowadays is even closer to techno than to prog, hah. But in the past he was clearly a part of the prog scene.

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