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Originally posted by arek when you're in a wheelchair you would appreciate that space

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Originally posted by JayX1 First off, most subway stations dont even have elevators. Second, why do the disabled need to take the subway when wheel trans picks them up and drops them off DOOR TO DOOR anywhere in the city for the same price as a cash fare? Political correctness needs to wake up to common sense.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

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Originally posted by MarkT I'm guessing that the TTC doesn't care about students as much as they care about attracting new riders.

I don't see your point?

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Originally posted by MarkT Most students do not have the option to NOT take the TTC...

Except for all the students living in residence, those who have their own car, those whose parents bought them a car, and those who live in the vicinity of the university.

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Originally posted by MarkT so the rationale becomes 'why discount a customer that you've already secured'?

The only way that the TTC will secure all students as customers is by making them pay $500 each as part of their tuition, regardless of whether or not they will be reciecing a TTC metropass.

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^^^

my point is in reply to negativity towards the TTC for seeking to add a fee to ALL students in order to subsidize Metropasses, rather than just subsidize them for those who actually want one.

My point is that the TTC's priority is not to "help students"...it's to keep costs down.

MOST students:

- do not live in residence
- do not have a car
- do not live within walking distance of the university

do I have stats to back that up? no...but I don't think I'm making a wild assertion here that more students take TTC than have a car or live in/around their school so that they can walk. Even if it's not "most" but just a very significant % (like 1/3), the overall point stands.

Toronto isn't just UofT...it includes Ryerson, York (which is in the middle of nowhere), and several colleges (some of which don't have student residences or even housing in their immediate vicinity).

i.e. students have little choice but to take the TTC and the TTC isn't going to subsidize EXISTING customers...it's a simple cost analysis...if we lower the price by x amount, will we gain enough NEW ridership to offset the drop in revenue from those who would be buying it anyway?

apparently not, since they want a $500 fee from universities for EVERY student...

btw...I'm not supporting this...I'd be *pissed* if I was expected to pay $500.00 more each year and didn't take the TTC. Are those other students subsidizing my higher rent for living DT? Are those other students paying part of the car lease/loan, gas, maintenance for those who drive? no...so they can pay for their own metropass or the gov't and TTC can subsidize it on their own. My taxes won't go up $500 as a result, if they do.

Last edited by MarkT on Feb-10-2006 at 21:13

as a person who takes transit, i would love for this to go through but i dont think it will becuase of what you guys already said.

i would also be pissed if i didnt take the ttc and had to pay $500.

they (TTC/univ) should have some kind of refund program where if u buy X amount of metropasses a year, ur eligible for that refund.

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Ahhh ic what your point is now

Just for a bit of reference. At UofT (I know it's not a representative sample of all toronto students, but bear with me), about 11,000 metropasses are sold monthly. Undergraduate enrollment is close to 40,000. When you factor in the TTC passes that are sold from that quota to non-students (metropasses @ UofT are also sold to profs, TAs and university staff), the percentage of students purchasing a metropass from school are ~25% of total enrollment.

So...

If the cost of a metropass for 12 months is $500 for every student --> 500 x ~40,000 = $20,000,000 annual revenue to the TTC.

If the annual cost of a metropass remains $88 x 12 = $1056. Annual revenue to the TTC would be $1056 x 11,000 = $11,616,000.

Therefore the TTC stands to benefit to the tune of $20,000,000 - $11,616,000 = $8,384,000 under the new plan. All that extra revenue would come from students!

*Note: this model assumes constant demand for metropasses, however, that is unlikely given the proposed "lower" price.

*Note2: for the students to benefit from this (as a group), current demand for metropasses would have to be $20,000,000 / $1056 = 18,940 metropasses. Which is much higher than the current sales volume, even accounting for sales to non-students at UofT.

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Last edited by AwakenedAddict on Feb-12-2006 at 17:28

yeah, I think you're right, even if those numbers are very rough approximations.

assume your numbers to be reasonable, even conservative given that more passes would likely be sold at the lower rate... this would be a 'profitable' venture for the TTC if they could get EVERY student to cough up $500.

I was a student...I never complained about tuition...and I still think we have it pretty good here...but I'd rather see the various levels of gov't address our transit funding issues than dump added costs on students.

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Originally posted by MarkT yeah, I think you're right, even if those numbers are very rough approximations. assume your numbers to be reasonable, even conservative given that more passes would likely be sold at the lower rate... this would be a 'profitable' venture for the TTC if they could get EVERY student to cough up $500. I was a student...I never complained about tuition...and I still think we have it pretty good here...but I'd rather see the various levels of gov't address our transit funding issues than dump added costs on students.

Why SHOULD governments up their funding when most of the money will be WASTED by the TTC on wage-hikes (every 4 years, I REALLY feel sorry for those $25/h bus drivers, fucking unions), administrative costs, and just a general mis-management of money.

Tossing money at the problem will only make things worse.