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Originally posted by Jayx1 And it is very racist to tell a white person who is born in canada to "go home if they dont agree with what the aboriginals say". Excuse me, i was born here. THIS IS MY HOME AS MUCH AS IT IS ANYONE ELSE'S. I am too a native of canada even if my skin is a different colour. To say otherwise is racist. Sure my family hasnt been here as long as some. But I have been here my whole life. To kick someone out because they are white is a very racist idea. Swilly you talk of hitler yet the stuff you say is VERY racist and full of ethnic cleansing sentiments.

You are so right on this.....

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-.mK. - DONE UNIVERSITY weeeeeeeeee! says:
RITA MCNEIL CHRISTMAS SPECIAL MON @8, CTV

I don't often agree with you Jayx1 but I'm 100% behind you on this.

Why does this remind me of something...hmmmmmm

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I don't often agree with you Jayx1 but I'm 100% behind you on this.

+1

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yea, 100%

colonization happened all over the world and with a lot less pretty results. boo fucking hoo

The government has more then provided ample means for them to become self-sufficient, which them seem to have squandered. at this point, they're just keeping themselves down. maybe that sucks for an individual born into that lifestyle, but the opportunities open to them should have been used to better themselves (ie. free education). now they're the only ones responsible

also, while i am still a bleeding heart leftwinger (in civil, political and social rights, not in leftist economic policies), i don't agree that handouts should be given based on race.

so either join society and play by its rules, or go live in the bush and avoid everyone. but either way, do it on your own

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard For the good of those living in sub standard conditions within the reserve system's own good, the Indian Act should be scraped, the reserve system dismantled and Aborigionals afforded the same benefits as any other cultural group. This will force an end to the ill-concieved idea of allowing a iron aged culture to exist along side the contemporaries (as was the intend to the Crown back in the 1700s). It is only by abolishing the current system that the aborigionals can be made part of mainstream society and only by being part of mainstream society will their suffering end.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard Give the natives their self-govenment on the condition that they get a one time cash allowance per resident and no future assistance from the feds. They'll piss through that in no time (especially considering the wide spread corruption amongst the bands which even the counsel of first nations acknowledges as an epidemic) and burry themselves in debt. With no other options they'll be forced to sell the land and we can be done with this shit once and for all.... with the exception of perhaps the Cree in Quebec who own tons of resources and have embraced western society and the work ethic that comes along with it.

Moral Hazard - u came up with some interesting ideas. how could they change it though. within our laws and stuff, is it possible to take away the special rights they were given? do u see civil society allowing it? what laws exists today that surround this issue.

you are much more interesting to read then googling for the info

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Originally posted by starsearcher Why does this remind me of something...hmmmmmm

Yeah but that other something (if it is what I think you're talking about) didn't involve selling of land...

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Originally posted by spitty Moral Hazard - u came up with some interesting ideas. how could they change it though. within our laws and stuff, is it possible to take away the special rights they were given? do u see civil society allowing it? what laws exists today that surround this issue. you are much more interesting to read then googling for the info

The Indian Act is the legislative source for the special rights and privelages afforded to the natives. Under this legislation they are afforded social assistance (at a substantially increased rate then non-natives), subsidies to band counsels, limited autonomous rule of reserve land, various tax exemptions (PST, income tax breaks if living on the reserve, exise tax, gas tax, property and others), special status for various government initiatives, exemptions from hunting and fishing licensing and laws, etc. Unfortunately, I cannot name all the allowances/special rights afforded under the Indian Act as it has been some time since I have reviewed it and I believe it has been ammended in recent years. The Indian Act is the source for the special status of natives.

Given that the Indian Act is a piece of legislation rather then part of the constitution it can be ammended or repealled at any time. Granted, there would be political fall-out from this but if the agenda is controled properly and the correct spin is put on it then said fall-out can be minimized. The important thing to consider when assessing fall-out is that most Canadians sympathize with the natives but understand that the present system is working against their interest rather then for it. Anyone seeking to change the Indian Act would need to explain their motivation as being the best interest of the natives.

When it comes to land ownership a series of treaties between the various tribes and the British Colonial Governments, Canadian Government and the individual tribes/bands are the source documents to be examined. I believe it would be prudent for the federal government, in partnership with the Assembly of First Nations, to review all the treaties on record to determine exactly what land belongs to who. Now, I mentioned earlier that treaties with the colonial governments need not be honoured by the present federal government as the colonial government is defunct and it's obligations were not carried to the Canadian government under the BNA Act. This could greatly expediate the matter as effectively all those treaties are null and void, however, such a move could create unrest and instability so I would suggest land claims under those treaties should be negotiated individually. Once this process is complete (say 10 years or so.... there's a lot of treaties and title searches to be examined) we should have a very definate picture of who owns what land. Once we have set firm and indisputable reserve boundries land claims should either end completely or be easily assessable by the courts.

Following a defining of band lands I would recommend that we offer to the Assembly of First Nations a renegotiation of the Indian Act (although they really don't need to be included in this process, as it is an act of the Canadian government, I believe it would only be fair that they have representation). During said negotiations I would offer the Assembly autonomy of rule for it's members over reserve lands with the exception of provincally owned infrastructure (provincial highways, powerlines, water systems, gas pipe lines, etc). The autonomous rule would be such that the reserves would effectively have the same self government as do incorporated cities/townships. This has long since been a goal of the Assembly so it is likely that they would welcome this offer. In exchange for the expanded autonomy I would demand that all future annual subsidies, tax exemptions (other then PST) and special status social assistance be scrapped in favour a one time cash allowance be afforded to the band counsels at a present value of 10 years the current annual allowance.

This would give the bands 10 years to make a go of it on their own. In those ten years they will either become viable communities capable of supporting themselves and competing with their neighbouring communities or they will not. If they do become viable then great! If they fail to become viable communities then they will be forced to solve their financial problems in much the same way as any other incorporated community.... either through inviting investment in the region, increased taxation, or selling land. As I believe few manufacturing or large commercial enterprises would be willing to invest in native communities (other then those near major centres) and tax income from residents would likely be insufficient to cover the band's operating costs, it is likely that the bands will be required to sell or lease land in order to finance their government and infrastructure. Eventually, I predict the reserves would either end up bankrupt or their residents would leave in favour of better opportunity elsewhere (the lack of special status assistance would negate the incentive to remain on the reserve). Over time the non-viable reserves would fold and be made part of surrounding communities or purchased by the federal government as crown land.

Wow.... holy long winded! This is a rough out-line of how I believe the current problems with the reserve system can best be rectified. Of course it would require refinement before it could be policy, however, I believe it is the direction we need to go.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

^^^yeah what he said

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Originally posted by Mako Yeah but that other something (if it is what I think you're talking about) didn't involve selling of land...

We're probabbly talking about the same thing...but it's an interesting development...

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard What really gets me laughing though is that with all of these land claims the bands really don't give a damn about the land until someone starts to develop it. Then all of a suddon they want it back. Why? Money that's why! Plain and simple. The "First Nations" disgust me.... always reaching out for scraps and taking whatever they can. Seriously.... give up your second rate lives begging the feds to pay for your meager lives and go get yourself something better.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The "you stole our land so now you have to pay for me to and my decendents in perpituity to live without our actually contributing anything to society" thinking is just plain wrong.

+1

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Originally posted by Xavier Moriarty just remember, this is a nation of warriors and this will get uglier before it gets better.

lol... sorry to say it but what was once a nation of warriors have turned into, for lack of a better description out of lazyness, a joke. You live in canada, you're a native, my friend is chinese, another is greek, at the same time all are canadians, it's a multicultural country. You want to keep your ancestry? Good so do most, yet other races have no problem doing it while contributing to society. Use that warrior spirit, take control of your lives and start acting like canadians.

Last edited by Wyndham on Apr-26-2006 at 17:48