quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana For fuck sake it's known as football everywhere else in the world except australia.

how bout the US? im sure other countries would call it soccer too.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana AFL has an expiry, I truly believe that. It's a game that has for too long, seen external sources assisting teams to stay afloat. If a side like Carlton cannot maintain a profitable club, then how the hell does the game ever more forward. Espcially since they have had over 50 years of status and recognition but can't maintain members????

thats ridiculous. AFL sees more crowd than any other Oz sport. sure, some teams might have financial issues, but many do not. its a cyclical industry, like any other business. to extrapolate a club's financial woes across all other clubs or the institution as a whole isnt convincing.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana I mean, great, it's australia's game, but don't emphasise this at the expense of other sports. Even hockey is played at an international level and always seems to get left out of public attention due to the AFL's bureaucratic leap on other sports.

true, however the real problem isnt these other sports, its that the quality of soccer in australia is relatively poor. all our really good players go overseas, and why wouldnt you? more money, more prestige.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana There is no reason why soccer cannot be more popular than AFL. Yes sure, they could co-exist. But at the end of the day it's all big business and viability/profitability that decides the fate of anything at the national level and how networks and game associations can fleece the game for what it's worth.

sport is inherently a cultural thing, and in our culture, AFL is it. until you get your average aussie into soccer, it will continue to languish. another reason its awesome to see a team in the world cup, and the bandwagon jumpers are needed in their droves to help the game at a regional/national level.

its not AFL or any other sport thats the issue, its the cultural disinterest australians have in soccer. maybe after several world cup appearances it might be different, but you cant blame anything else for its lack of popularity. australians dont like soccer. same as americans dont like soccer. other sports have captured more hearts and minds. simple economics.

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pkc, good on you for nit picking on each point that's been raised. At the end of the day, we see things for what they are. You can't change an opinion on things and how people perceive things to be. I'm a very passionate soccer supporter, heck I used to play football back in the days and loved it. But stopped support the game once it became AFL.

With respect to the quality of soccer in Australia, the problem is due to poor, inadequate funding. The reason they leave for europe or another continent is to be able to compete at an international level for which Australia does not have the ability to do so up until now. I feel that this world cup should give the country enough gravity to pull it through and hopefully pick up the game locally. Yes, I am rather optimistic on this point and truly do hope it gathers momentum and strength.

Yes AFL still has an expiry, I was at a corporate lunch at the Hyatt last week. We had Matthew Lloyd, another Geelong player (don't remember his name), a female commentator and Neil Daniher (spelling?) speaking and this same question was asked of Neil Daniher. Do you feel that soccer threatens the AFL tournament? His response was as to be expected. Yes. He feels that not enough Australian's have embraced the sport or given it a helping hand. He did also go on to say that the Auskick numbers are steadily declining (in his own words, halved). this is proof and evidence enough that the game is in some kind of trouble and that the youth leagues are declining. The game needs to change and quickly, again, in his own words.

If that isn't proof enough to you, coming from an active coach for Melbourne and someone who is instrumental in the game, then I don't know what is. I believe enough points have been raised, reraised etc. The topic now is growing tiresome and to be honest, we can't achieve much more here than a potential argument.

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In church, a pastor was leading the house in prayer. He said, "God, please protect your believers, and deliver us from sin." Chuck Norris stood up and said, "What have you done for me lately?"

Since when does an AFL coach saying that the World Cup will help soccer in Australia translate to AFL having an expiry date? It's Australia's national sport dude, you're being a little silly by saying something like that. Just look at the most recent TV rights numbers and you can see that AFL is a long way from 'exipring'

Why did you stop following Aussie Rules when it became the AFL Chris?

You're sounding a tad jaded about something imo.

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Pretty Simple;
Saturdays at Ffour.

AFL is declining................



with record crowds, record profits, record tv viewers and record income from tv rights.

That right there is a sport in decline, no two ways about it

AFL does not have an expiry. Its existed very successfully for 150 years, and its not gonna cease to exist in the next 5-10 or whatever. Should soccer get popular and widely accepted the two will co exist very easily. Australia does actually have the population to support two forms of football. Sure there may be a drop off from AFL to support soccer, but that will be negligable. The AFL supporters aren't just gonna wake up one day and forget about football. For Soccer to get anywhere near the popularity of Europe or England, it'll take at least (AT LEAST) 50 years of growth every single year. But logically it won't get that popular, and the two will still co exist.

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**Man I'm Pretty**

no offence intended mr pana, but you really shouldnt be arguing about it if it gets you so riled up when your ideas are challenged

i only have one point to make:

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana With respect to the quality of soccer in Australia, the problem is due to poor, inadequate funding. The reason they leave for europe or another continent is to be able to compete at an international level for which Australia does not have the ability to do so up until now. I feel that this world cup should give the country enough gravity to pull it through and hopefully pick up the game locally. Yes, I am rather optimistic on this point and truly do hope it gathers momentum and strength.

whilst you might be correct in its inadequate funding, australia will NEVER be able to compete with the european clubs in terms of money & prestige. the top AFL earners get the equivalent of 1 weeks pay a year(if theyre lucky!) for a good soccer player in europe. thus, our stars will continue to go overseas. without any elite local talent, the number of kids playing soccer is largely irrelevant.

so while giving soccer australia more funding might help generate better players (and more of them) its really just a training ground for those that wish to play in real leagues overseas. i simply cannot see how this fact can ever be changed. id love it, really i would. i love the sport and played it half my life. but as a realist, i think your optimism is bordering on faith alone.

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Last edited by pkcRAISTLIN on May-29-2006 at 01:41

PKC personally man, it's really, like most things on forums, been taken a little too far or a touch out of context. I'm not riled, nor overtly swayed on the difference of opinion. It's just a healthy debate and a bit of fun really. I'm practicing my touch typing.

Now, some european teams are backed by banks with limitless cash flows. this then, translates to massive advertising, exposure, salaries and above all, an opportunity to become competitive with the correct support base and obviously fan base. At the end of the day, if AFL were to "hypothetically" disappear, there will always be Soccer. I mean, yes it's a stupid point, but realistic nonetheless. Australia is not the be all and end all but it is when it comes to AFL. I sure hope all that's been raised is infact the case and that both do co-exist comfortably and that we can all continue to enjoy what we want out of either sports.

Dean, no one's jaded just a difference of opinion. When I say expiry I inherently mean that it has the potential to lose interest in its viewer/fan base and its 'good run' will pan and steady out. I don't ever mean that it will die and soccer then becomes the main national sport. I believe this issue again, like anything that has a passionate following that closely resembles religion, will be difficult to argue, both sides.

Again, here's another flag that needs to be raised. Why is fox footy looking at getting canned by the end of the year? I mean, i'd say that would be a 'sure' investment that's positively geared and i'd imagine any die hard footy supporter with Foxtel would watch this religiously? I dunno, but there's always usually a method to the madness. Cost cutting, a lack of interest in people watching the channel that have foxtel, who knows?

All i'm saying here is, one day soccer will inevitably reach to it's prospective fan base. Let's not forget there are far more migrants here that already support the game but need a platform to do so. The A-League is good but not overly great but I do believe it needs a change also (what that may be, is questionable). Whether or not that impacts on the AFL, that's questionable and arguable, but I do believe that the AFL will need to be prepared for something that could potentially have some ramification on the game. Whether negligible, again that's an opinion, or great, again a prediction, we could simply argue this to no end and both be wrong.

I think it's time to bury the issue as it's really going nowhere.

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In church, a pastor was leading the house in prayer. He said, "God, please protect your believers, and deliver us from sin." Chuck Norris stood up and said, "What have you done for me lately?"

Last edited by Chris Pana on May-29-2006 at 01:31

I honestly dont see footy ever ending mate.. It's got the biggest following doesn't it? I walk around the office daily and ****s ask me who i 'barrack for' and when I say 'no one really' they look like they just took a shit in their pants.

No offence to footy of course, not my cup of tea.. but it is damn popular and is no way 'expiring'.

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quote:

Originally posted by Chris Pana Again, here's another flag that needs to be raised. Why is fox footy looking at getting canned by the end of the year? I mean, i'd say that would be a 'sure' investment that's positively geared and i'd imagine any die hard footy supporter with Foxtel would watch this religiously? I dunno, but there's always a method to the madness.

why? Because 7 and 10 are happy to exlude them so they get exclusive rights to all the games and don't need to share with Foxtel. This point actually works against you, because 7 and 10 have realised they will get enough viewers to make the (record) investment worthwhile without needing Foxtel's money as well.

So, in summary, why are they getting "canned" as you put it? Because they were not part of the winning bid. Remember, there were two opposing parties bidding auction style for the tv rights, something that doesn't happen for soccer.

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**Man I'm Pretty**

begic wants the profile of AFL to give way to mens gymnastics.

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quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter why? Because 7 and 10 are happy to exlude them so they get exclusive rights to all the games and don't need to share with Foxtel. This point actually works against you, because 7 and 10 have realised they will get enough viewers to make the (record) investment worthwhile without needing Foxtel's money as well. So, in summary, why are they getting "canned" as you put it? Because they were not part of the winning bid. Remember, there were two opposing parties bidding auction style for the tv rights, something that doesn't happen for soccer.

Well then that answers my question and does make sense now that you look at it. Now it looks like i've rocked your boat and now you're getting a little personal with it all. It doesn't 'work against' me, it was a point that I heard last week and wasn't sure of why, hence the reason I mentioned it and asked the question. But you've now clarified it - end of matter.

It's not like, everyone against me. At least I have the decency to be able to argue the issue with, lets see, 3 of you. Good work lads, onto the next debate. Prog's future in a trance world? yes i'm looking at you Dean...he he

rock on, and oh, be sure to buy jocks a size bigger, it can have an effect on how you discuss matters.

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In church, a pastor was leading the house in prayer. He said, "God, please protect your believers, and deliver us from sin." Chuck Norris stood up and said, "What have you done for me lately?"

Expiring any time soon? maybe not...


Does it have an expiry date? Of course...


As more and more spectators get frustrated with the direction of the game and the coverage of the world game increases every year, AFL's inability to provide an international spectacle even at club level(ie. an Asian Cup etc) Pana's points does have merit...


What hurts football in Australia is its level of support by local councils... We play on a turf cricket pitch year in year out because the council cannot justify us having an all year ground when we only play in winter...


How can they justify decisions like that when the cricket club has no juniors and has 33 members on the book and yet the council pay for a curator to the ground... Meanwhile our football team has over 300 kids in the goal kick program another 150 juniors on top of that...200 women players and another 50 senior players...


ITs this beauracracy that exists in local councils which wont dissapear for decades to come.Until these knobs are buried in the turf, the game isnt going nowhere fast...

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Oh, life is bigger ,It's bigger than you,And you are not me,The lengths that I will go to, The distance in your eyes ,Oh no, I've said too much, I set it up

That's me in the corner, That's me in the spotlight, I'm Losing my religion, Trying to keep up with you ,And I don't know if I can do it, Oh no, I've said too much,I haven't said enough, I thought that I heard you laughing, I thought that I heard you sing, I think I thought I saw you try.

But that was just a dream, That was just a dream, But that was just a dream, Try, cry, why try? That was just a dream ,Just a dream, just a dream, Dream

haha, footy is more homo than men's gymnastics.. ****s in tight shorts grabbing each other's balls. right up your alley pkc =)

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Recently released:
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http://www.wtfnews.org