quote:

Originally posted by cherrybarry well, u certainly aren't an English major

The irony.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN ...rock groups like Coldplay and Keane make more complicated music and they are definitely more musical and melodic...

You gotta be kidding me. Coldplay and most of their copycats are mind numbingly simplistic. Maybe you should turn up the volume or get your hearing checked, because well produced trance tracks have up to ten times as many elements playing simultaneousely and interlocking in complex ways, not just a drummer, piano, guitar and lead singer who sounds like a dying cat.

personally i always thought that trance was like the classical music of the electronic dance music genre, its just more modern and advanced.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J The irony.

I know!

It's insane!

quote:

stylistically, they couldn't be any more different. both are harmony based however and the only connection is on a technical level. just b/c they both aren't pop doesn't mean we need to find similarities between them

Classical music can hardly be said to be 'harmony based.'

For one its too broad of a nameplate to apply to all orchestrated music. Secondly, the theoretical point of it all and the reason why its often a good idea to study the structure of classical music is that several great composers always seem to find new and interesting ways of breaking the music theory formula. The point isnt to play only consonant notes but to create different textures and moods from transitioning between and mixing up consonance and dissonance to varying degrees. Its a totally different way of trying to create a mood than what trance typically sets out to do and neither is worse or less accomplished in my opinion than the other.

The point isnt to slavishly adopt and rattle up and down scales for the hell of it or because a book told you to. Many examples of orchestrated music make far greater use of dissonance than trance music which (especially in the case of commercial trance) is nearly always consonant. Its not uncommon for trance tunes to stay in the same key and the same scale for the entire duration of the song. Its more the rule than the exception.

Thats not a bad thing though. Trance is kind of necessarily minimal and more about repeating notes and hypnotic grooves than complex musical flourishes. Hence the name. I like the simplicity in this music and I like it because it doesnt try to be anything it isnt. I like its sincerity.

Trance is almost always played allegro. Orchestrated music can have a far greater tempo range and often changes rhythym. The emphasis is often less on percussive sound and constant rhythmic patterns and more on creating textures with layers and tiers of instruments and timbres. Not to say that it cannot be rhythmic or percussive because it can. But trance is a much more focused, much more single minded style of music (in musical, theoretical terms now, not in emotional or spiritual or whatever you want to call it terms) than uhhh 'classical.'

Quite a bit of commercial trance and to some extent some prog trance makes liberal use of the 'crescendo' where a sound just builds and builds and builds in intensity - as in bolero. But this has become over time a musical device and isnt something you can really just associate with classical music anymore than you can just associate the drum with the ug tribe, at the dawn of time beating sticks on animal skins meshed over hollow logs.

I dont think you can really compare such broad styles of orchestrated music with a very specific subset of electronic music (which is broad in its own kind of way but you need to look and listen a little harder). One style moreover, which has existed for only a relatively short time and still subsists off the fundaments of music - beat and bass.

I wouldnt have it any other way. I like trance because it really brings music back to its roots for me - sound and rhythym. Beat and bass. Non stop. No breakdowns. No buildups.

quote:

It's a good thing you noticed the most essential part of his post.

At least there was something to be noticed.It's very bad there were some good points there....

quote:

You gotta be kidding me. Coldplay and most of their copycats are mind numbingly simplistic. Maybe you should turn up the volume or get your hearing checked, because well produced trance tracks have up to ten times as many elements playing simultaneousely and interlocking in complex ways, not just a drummer, piano, guitar and lead singer who sounds like a dying cat.

Ohhh, give me a break mateee, soem guy turns-on reason and fl creates 5 loops and lefts them playing simulatneously, don't overestimate something simple as hell. At least these bands are proper bands with people playing musical instruments and stuff...they are not some random bitter loser locked in his room pressing 3 notes on a mini-midi keyboard, even this random "mr.mystery" guy produces this trash lol, even YOU could do it!

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN At least there was something to be noticed.It's very bad there were some good points there.... Ohhh, give me a break mateee, soem guy turns-on reason and fl creates 5 loops and lefts them playing simulatneously, don't overestimate something simple as hell. At least these bands are proper bands with people playing musical instruments and stuff...they are not some random bitter loser locked in his room pressing 3 notes on a mini-midi keyboard, even this random "mr.mystery" guy produces this trash lol, even YOU could do it!

whats your point? i could have a band and make a shit song as well. Anyone could make a track, with instruments or protools. But not anyone can make a quality track (instruments or protools), and that's where you separate the men from the boys.
I wouldn't consider coldplay to be quality music by the way..they're pretty average.

I don't consider coldplay to be quality either, i just used the current name in order to make a point about the complexity of trance which is absent!Some people thing that trance is the new classical which is completely wrong, trance and the vast majority of EDM is pop music, music to get played in the clubs by the djs,make people feel good and dance, bring money to the labels and the promoters and stuff and that's all there is really! You are right about the good-melody/bad-melody distinction though, but technically speaking, trance is extremely simple, to the point that is very plastic and cheap, any kid can do it with no musical knowledge at all.From that perspective, any band or instrument-player ("musician") is better than any random loser with a pc ("producer") out there.Besides that, there are hundreds of quality genres out-there waiting to be explored.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN I don't consider coldplay to be quality either, i just used the current name in order to make a point about the complexity of trance which is absent!Some people thing that trance is the new classical which is completely wrong, trance and the vast majority of EDM is pop music, music to get played in the clubs by the djs,make people feel good and dance, bring money to the labels and the promoters and stuff and that's all there is really! You are right about the good-melody/bad-melody distinction though, but technically speaking, trance is extremely simple, to the point that is very plastic and cheap, any kid can do it with no musical knowledge at all.From that perspective, any band or instrument-player ("musician") is better than any random loser with a pc ("producer") out there.Besides that, there are hundreds of quality genres out-there waiting to be explored.

I agree that trance is horrible for whatever reason, im not fond of the genre production or quality wise. I'll disagree that any musician is better than someone who uses a PC to produce. Unless this musician writes every single note for every single instrument (like a classical composer and artists such as Trent Reznor etc), hes not exactly better than a producer. Not to mention using a computer to make a trackc does not mean you just click a button and it does the track for you. Creativity is what is all about, and that is left up to the person whos writing the song. A electronica producer is a musician, he is just using different tools to create this music. There are many electronica tracks out there that are much better produced than most "instrument-player" songs out there. Im not talking about trance or any top dance hit list either. Maybe your knowledge in EDM isn't extensive enough to recognize these quality producers/productions im referring to....i can't be fucked talking about it now but you can always make a recommendation thread for sets or tracks or whatever.

quote:

I agree that trance is horrible for whatever reason, im not fond of the genre production or quality wise. I'll disagree that any musician is better than someone who uses a PC to produce. Unless this musician writes every single note for every single instrument (like a classical composer and artists such as Trent Reznor etc), hes not exactly better than a producer. Not to mention using a computer to make a trackc does not mean you just click a button and it does the track for you. Creativity is what is all about, and that is left up to the person whos writing the song. A electronica producer is a musician, he is just using different tools to create this music. There are many electronica tracks out there that are much better produced than most "instrument-player" songs out there. Im not talking about trance or any top dance hit list either. Maybe your knowledge in EDM isn't extensive enough to recognize these quality producers/productions im referring to....i can't be fucked talking about it now but you can always make a recommendation thread for sets or tracks or whatever.

First of all i didn't state that all EDM is crap, all other music is good, not at all.In a matter of fact i suggest some good EDM other than trance in a previous post.I find some genres like Trance, Hard Sound, German techno(the one that sounds like trains passing-the adam beyer stuff) and lot's of progressive to be crap, because basically they are cheap and easy to be made, just 5-6 loops playing side by side("elements") and generally tunes are terribly linear they don't evolve. Quality EDM...let's see, yes there is complex and technical EDM and i think this should be IDM (Intelligent Dance Music) stuff like Boards of Canada, Bola, Pan Sonic,Autechre and stuff like Orbital,Leftfield...old deep techno/house (detroit influenced) such as the Carl Craig,Timewriter, Terry Lee Brown Jr.,Technasia, Lawrence, the berlinesque minimalism such as Basic Channel,Maurizio,Fluxion,Monolake(they are repetetive but they sound quite engineered and technical) there are many names and projects,as you said, this is a good idea to start a new thread ! I doubt though that all these producers are like the 17-year old anjunabeats trance-kids that sit on front of their computers ,cutting and pasting their simple note loops in their reason 2,5.These people are more like real musicians with lot's of analogue equipment, hardware studios and stuff...of course than you'll say that it's inspiration rather than the studio (virtual or hardware synths)that counts, bu i strongly believe that is a different level of professionalism alltogether, these individuals take their work much more seriously and work at a more serious level in relation to a random modern trance producer (kid) who is ordered by anjuna,ASOT or anyone to come with the new "massive" 4-note track that's gonna rock the stadiums and the internet radio shows.Anyway that's just my opinion...


E.g Trent Reznor, that's "Nine Inch Nails" right? "The Downward's Spiral" was good, too noisy for my taste though. From the industrial side of things i prefer 80s EBM, there was an amazing album called "Buried Dreams" by an amazing band called "Clock DVA". Front-242, Cabaret Voltaire, Skinny Puppy were also good(although disturbing at times!)

wait till the same 4 year olds start producing classical music with nuendo...

Its only a matter of time till music is all electronic

___________________
Time exists so everything doesn't happen at once. Space exists so everything doesn't happen to you

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN First of all i didn't state that all EDM is crap, all other music is good, not at all.In a matter of fact i suggest some good EDM other than trance in a previous post.I find some genres like Trance, Hard Sound, German techno(the one that sounds like trains passing-the adam beyer stuff) and lot's of progressive to be crap, because basically they are cheap and easy to be made, just 5-6 loops playing side by side("elements") and generally tunes are terribly linear they don't evolve. Quality EDM...let's see, yes there is complex and technical EDM and i think this should be IDM (Intelligent Dance Music) stuff like Boards of Canada, Bola, Pan Sonic,Autechre and stuff like Orbital,Leftfield...old deep techno/house (detroit influenced) such as the Carl Craig,Timewriter, Terry Lee Brown Jr.,Technasia, Lawrence, the berlinesque minimalism such as Basic Channel,Maurizio,Fluxion,Monolake(they are repetetive but they sound quite engineered and technical) there are many names and projects,as you said, this is a good idea to start a new thread ! I doubt though that all these producers are like the 17-year old anjunabeats trance-kids that sit on front of their computers ,cutting and pasting their simple note loops in their reason 2,5.These people are more like real musicians with lot's of analogue equipment, hardware studios and stuff...of course than you'll say that it's inspiration rather than the studio (virtual or hardware synths)that counts, bu i strongly believe that is a different level of professionalism alltogether, these individuals take their work much more seriously and work at a more serious level in relation to a random modern trance producer (kid) who is ordered by anjuna,ASOT or anyone to come with the new "massive" 4-note track that's gonna rock the stadiums and the internet radio shows.Anyway that's just my opinion... E.g Trent Reznor, that's "Nine Inch Nails" right? "The Downward's Spiral" was good, too noisy for my taste though. From the industrial side of things i prefer 80s EBM, there was an amazing album called "Buried Dreams" by an amazing band called "Clock DVA". Front-242, Cabaret Voltaire, Skinny Puppy were also good(although disturbing at times!)

Christ you sound like a pretentious wanker. Music is art. Remember that.

___________________
Mixes:
> Maximum Elevation [Progressive House]
> DI.FM 26th Anniversary Guest Mix [Progressive House]
> Live @ Dance:Love:Hub London, 11.10.2025
> Higher Peaks [Progressive House]
> Dance:Love:Hub Afterparty (The Return) 23.11.24

Like these sets? Come see me play live at Kibosh in Manchester: https://www.instagram.com/kibosh.mcr/