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TSG
"Trinity"



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Xtracktor
usa tu espanol

Por que? No te gusta mi Espanol, digo mi Espanglish?

Ok.... Damn, why do people always have to start getting all pissy when trying to talk about certain subjects? To those that say "oh I'm going to use as much as I want cuz I pay for it" and/or "screw them ... blah, blah, blah." What are you trying to prove? That you're some bad ass mofo?
Yeah, there was probably a time that I said the same things when told about conserving electricity, gas, or water... but you know what? I still wasn't able to get gas when I wanted to, only on certain days that were said to be for those with license plates ending in even numbers. I also went through a Christmas where people were told not to use Christmas lights to decorate the windows and other things around the house. I think of the people in Mexico or Central America where at a certain time, all electrical power goes off! As for the water... well there was a time if you were caught watering the lawns or even washing your car with your hose... you got cited.

So with that being said, when told to conserve and help out... I try to do my share of conserving even if I pay the bills. It's not fun being without certain neccessities (things we take for granted) for many hours or days.

Old Post Jul-26-2006 04:56  Oman
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TSG
"Trinity"



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by |Thrax|
too bad global warming doesn't exist. somebody has to blame it on something, right?

that's it, the intellectual capacity for this thread has been breached. please restart your computer,


What you think you know climate shifts may not be the whole story, after all...

MISCONCEPTION 1
"Scientists disagree about whether humans are causing the Earth's climate to change."
In fact, there is strong scientific consensus that human activities are changing the Earth's climate. Scientists overwhelmingly agree that the Earth is getting warmer, that this trend is caused by people, and that if we continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, the warming will be increasingly harmful.

MISCONCEPTION 2

"Lots of things can impact climate--so there's no reason we should single out CO2 to worry about."
Climate is sensitive to many things besides carbon dioxide--sunspots, for one, as well as water vapor. But this just proves how much we should worry about CO2 and other human-influenced greenhouse gases. The fact that the climate system has been shown to be sensitive to many sorts of natural changes throughout history should serve as a red flag: We need to pay close attention to the massive and unprecedented changes we're causing. We have become more powerful than any force of nature.

MISCONCEPTION 3
"Climate naturally varies over time, so any change we're seeing now is just part of a natural cycle."
Climate does naturally change. By studying tree rings, lake sediments, ice cores, and other natural features that provide a record of past climates, scientists know that changes in climate, including abrupt changes, have occurred throughout history. But these changes all took place with natural variations in carbon dioxide levels that were smaller than the ones we are now causing. Cores taken from deep in the ice of Antarctica show that carbon dioxide levels are higher now than they have been at any time in the last 650,000 years, which means we are outside the realm of natural climate variation. More CO2 in the atmosphere means warming temperatures.

MISCONCEPTION 4
"The hole in the ozone layer causes global warming."
There is a relationship between climate change and the ozone hole, but this isn't it. The hole in the ozone layer--a part of the upper atmosphere that contains high concentrations of ozone gas and shields the planet from the sun's radiation--is due to man-made chemicals called CFCs, which were banned by an international agreement called the Montreal Protocol. The hole causes extra UV radiation to reach the Earth's surface, but it does not affect the Earth's temperature.

The only connection between the ozone layer and climate change is almost the exact opposite of the myth stated above. Global warming--while not responsible for the ozone hole--could actually slow the natural repairing of the ozone layer. Global warming heats the lower atmosphere but actually cools the stratosphere, which can worsen stratospheric ozone loss.

MISCONCEPTION 5
"There is nothing we can do about climate change. It's already too late."
This is the worst misconception of all. If "denial ain't just a river in Egypt,"despair ain't just a tire in the trunk. There are lots of things we can do--but we need to start now. We can't ignore the causes and impacts of climate change any longer. We need to reduce our use of fossil fuels, through a combination of government initiatives, industry innovation, and individual action. Dozens of things you can do are outlined in this resource guide.

MISCONCEPTION 6
"Antarctica's ice sheets are growing, so it must not be true that global warming is causing glaciers and sea ice to melt."
Some ice on Antarctica may be growing?though other areas of the continent are clearly melting and a new 2006 study shows that overall the ice is shrinking in Antarctica. Even if some of the ice is getting bigger, not shrinking, this doesn't change the fact that global warming is causing glaciers and sea ice to melt around the world. Globally, more than 85% of glaciers are shrinking. And in any case, localized impacts of climate change don't cancel out the global trends that scientists are observing.

Some people also mistakenly claim (in Michael Crichton's novel State of Fear, for instance) that Greenland's ice is growing. In fact, recent satellite data from NASA shows that Greenland's ice cap is shrinking every year, causing sea levels to rise. The loss of that ice doubled from 1996 to 2005. Greenland lost 50 cubic kilometers of ice in 2005 alone.

MISCONCEPTION 7
" Global warming is a good thing, because it will rid us of frigid winters and make plants grow more quickly."
This myth just doesn't seem to die. Because local impacts will vary, it's true that some specific places may experience more pleasant winter weather. But the negative impact of climate change vastly outweighs any local benefits. Take the oceans, for example. Changes to the oceans caused by global warming are already causing massive die-offs of coral reefs, which are crucial sources of food and shelter for creatures at every stage of the ocean food chain, all the way up to us.

Melting ice sheets are causing sea levels to rise, and if big ice sheets melt into the ocean, many coastal cities around the world will flood and millions of people will become refugees. These are just some of the consequences of global warming. Other predicted impacts include prolonged periods of drought, more severe flooding, more intense storms, soil erosion, mass species extinction, and human health risks from new diseases. The small number of people who experience better weather may be doing it in a landscape that is nearly unrecognizable.

MISCONCEPTION 8
"The warming scientists are recording is just the effect of cities trapping heat, rather than anything to do with greenhouse gases."
People who want to deny global warming because it's easier than dealing with it try to argue that what scientists are really observing is just the "urban heat island" effect, meaning that cities tend to trap heat because of all the buildings and asphalt. This is simply wrong. Temperature measurements are generally taken in parks, which are actually cool areas within the urban heat islands. And long-term temperature records showing just rural areas are nearly identical to long-term records that include both rural areas and cities. Most scientific research shows that "urban heat islands" have a negligible effect on the overall warming of the planet.

MISCONCEPTION 9
"Global warming is the result of a meteor that crashed in Siberia in the early 20th century."
This may sound absurd to some of us, but it's a real hypothesis suggested by a Russian scientist. So what's wrong with it? Basically, everything. The impact of a meteor, much like a volcanic eruption, might have immediate effects on climate if it were large enough. But there is no record of warming or cooling during the period after this meteor hit. The effects that would have been produced by the meteor would have involved water vapor, which only stays in the upper atmosphere for a few years at the most. Any effects would have been short-term, and could not be felt this far in the future.

MISCONCEPTION 10
" Temperatures in some areas aren't increasing, so global warming is a myth."
It is certainly true that the temperature is not rising at every point on the planet. In Michael Crichton's novel The State of Fear, characters pass around graphs that show specific places around the world where temperatures are decreasing slightly or remaining the same. The graphs represent real data from real scientists. But while they may be fact, they don't prove the point. Global warming refers to the rise in the average temperature of the entire Earth's surface due to increased levels of greenhouse gases.

Because the climate is an incredibly complex system, the impacts of climate change will not be the same everywhere. Some areas of the globe--such as northern Europe--might actually become colder. But this does not change the fact that overall, the surface temperature of the planet is rising, as are the temperatures of our oceans. The gains have been demonstrated by several types of measurements--including satellite data--that show the same general results.

Old Post Jul-26-2006 04:59  Oman
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

ahh whatever... you two guys come off sounding like a couple of brats throwing a tantrum because the state energy controller "urges" you to conserve some energy--it's such an evil concept, i know... what kind of fascist police-state do we live in where the utility controller can suggest things! if you use your electricity reasonably, that's fine, but running your a/c at 60 degrees 24/7 even when you're not home is not reasonable, it's pretty disgusting. you probably have no idea how pollusive that pointless gesture is either. i imagine you don't even give a shit.

all caiso is asking of you is to set the thermostat around 78-80 and try to use major appliances after 7pm. you act like they're asking for a kidney. if 78 degrees is unliveable for you in a dry california climate, please grow a pair. seriously. my whole problem here is with you guys lashing out at caiso for putting out an alert. i just can't deal with childish behavior from grown adults. and on top of that i really hate people who waste, anything. just because you pay for it doesn't make it right. it reflects greatly upon your character. i guess i'm not changing anyone's mind here so continue to perpetuate the american stereotype...

ps: we can still be friends but if you think global warming is bs, i'll still have a very low view of your intelligence because the science and data behind it is OVERWHELMING... like 'evolution' overwhelming, but the small-minded always choose to believe whatever's most convenient... i didn't take you for one to be small-minded thrax, but then again i don't know you very well


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Last edited by R!CH on Jul-26-2006 at 08:30

Old Post Jul-26-2006 05:03  United States
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

quote:
Originally posted by TSG
What you think you know climate shifts may not be the whole story, after all...

MISCONCEPTION 1....


EXCELLENT POST TSG

even the entire body of nasa, not to mention the world science community--everyone from biologists to geoscientists, have been saying it for years and years and years. nasa's computer models can predict the climate change from the 7 billion metric tonnes of co2 we dump into our atmosphere EACH YEAR IN AMERICA ALONE, down the 1/10th of a degree. they say the tipping point where it becomes too late to cool the atmosphere down no matter what we do will be sometime around 2037, when the global climate increases by 5-6 degrees.

but of course, dr. thrax is here to tell us global warming does not exist honestly, a statement like that is more laughable than creationism or scientiology just about the only person in the world opposed to the idea of global warming is george bush--and he has a good excuse at least: it hurts his buddies in the energy/oil industries to acknowledge it. you thrax? i dunno, i mean you have the entire internet at your fingertips and you choose to deny the FACT of global warming...


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Old Post Jul-26-2006 05:30  United States
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TSG
"Trinity"



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by lex400sc
EXCELLENT POST TSG



Thank you

Old Post Jul-26-2006 05:52  Oman
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

quote:
Originally posted by TSG
Thank you


now be prepared to be called a hippy!


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Old Post Jul-26-2006 06:02  United States
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Xtracktor
EDM Conservative



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Lathrop, CA

I'm telling you! Solution when your hot, jump in the ocean!

(Let me know if you see any crabs while you are at it)

Old Post Jul-26-2006 14:49  United States
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Bob_Motamedi
I'm All In...



Registered: May 2005
Location: VIVA LAS VEGAS BABY!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Xtracktor
I'm telling you! Solution when your hot, jump in the ocean!

(Let me know if you see any crabs while you are at it)


This is L.A.....you dont need to jump in the ocean to see crabs..


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Old Post Jul-26-2006 15:21  United States
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TSG
"Trinity"



Registered: Oct 2004
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob_Motamedi
This is L.A.....you dont need to jump in the ocean to see crabs..


hahahaha... no kidding!

Old Post Jul-26-2006 16:59  Oman
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Xtracktor
EDM Conservative



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Lathrop, CA

quote:
Originally posted by Bob_Motamedi
This is L.A.....you dont need to jump in the ocean to see crabs..


Gah! Domestic Arachnids don't matter!


Must find more Cancer antennarius spots (Just trying to make my research easier)

Old Post Jul-26-2006 18:42  United States
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bas
Stronger Lover



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Here I Am Baby

An even easier solution, live in a movie theater. I movie hopped all day on Friday, free AC ftw.


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Old Post Jul-26-2006 18:46  Egypt
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R!CH
check signal



Registered: Sep 2004
Location: potrero hill

there are so many things you can do to cool down: call up some friends and jump in the pool, take a cold shower, make a gallon of iced tea, go to a store/mall/library, get naked.... jumping in the ocean sounds nice, i wish i lived closer to the beach

anyway, it looks like it's cooling down. today's high is 99 and it steadily drops to 86 by sunday. i was just driving around today with my windows down thinking how nice 98 degrees feels for a change


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Old Post Jul-26-2006 23:55  United States
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