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Originally posted by skip-f*ckn-intr 1) The islands terms of residence were made law, first by the Rae government and then with changes under Mike Harris. Since they were acts of the provincial pariliament, yes they were voted on, twice. The 99 year leases were a way of the province and the city ensuring that they hold title to the land. The prices of the houses are fixed based on the cost of the materials to build the homes, this was done to a) avoid giving islanders a lottery type wind fall and b) to avoid speculation. I am sure that there are a lot of islanders who would have been or would be happy to sell their homes at market rates, but the law forbids this. For better or worse.

so dont you agree that the islanders should be paying regular municipal taxes on a normal land assesment? As it stands they pay taxes based on assessments at $90,000 etc which we all know in today's marketplace is ridiculously undervalued. Face it, just on property taxes alone the islanders got a sweetheart deal. And yes the NDP did sell out. Just like they sold out the province on a number of things.

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2) noise complaints after 11 pm don't require a sound pressure measurement, they rest on what i think is called a test of reasonableness. During hours before 11, I think that there is a sound pressure measurement required. As noted earlier peoples windows have been shaking in their frames sometimes. ( I will admit that that is third hand, but it does get pretty loud over there sometimes, and as a former resident of Adelaide and John streets, my idea of what constitutes loud is pretty tolerant.

im willing to bet that the sound is a combination of all the events going on around the city concentrating in one spot thanks to the proximity of a large body of water. See above article.

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3) judging by the fact that part of the terms for the docks stay included paying $14700 in outstanding fines I would guess that the docks had been warned and then fined at least three times, but probably more. I do recall that when the speakers were turned towards Ashbridges Bay five or so years agp Tom Jackobek from the Beaches wanted the club shut down immediately. [/quoke] Tom Jakobek was a sensationalist freak. Thank god this guy didnt become mayor (the corruption allegations put a stop to that) I could go into personal anctidotes about this guy and what a sensationalist attention seeker he was. Jakobek is NOT a credible ally im sorry to say. And i know the incident you are talking about specifically. I will see if i can find a newspaper article from that time period. [quote] 4) I have no idea, but I would imagine that is the case. The Docks has taken great pains to demonstrate that their sound system keeps sound levels reasonable and so on. I would imagine that he feels he is being unfairly tarred with a brush more unfairly. I know that islanders have complained about noise from the docks in february...are there parties on Cherry beach in the winter?

the islanders complain about everything year round. I think that has been demonstrated repeatedly.

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1) The docks lost their license because they had according to the findings by AGCO consistently ignored noise complaints for many years. I don't know about whether or not there had been complaints in the last year, but the Docks behavior had been in the past to ignore the law, and since there are very few remedies under the law and the $14000 in fines for previous noise violations had yet to be paid, the Alcohol and Gaming commission found them in violation of their license.

So they paid the $14000 and turned down the noise. Are you happy yet? Something tells me the answer is no.

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I don't know if Islanders run city hall, they have a city counsellor as do you. City council was not responsible for the Docks loss of their license it was the Alcohol and Gaming Commission who had over a month of hearings on the subject. Theirs was a finding based on the laws dealing with liquor licenses.

you and i both know that the decision is politically motivated and heavily influenced by the city. So both you AND the mayor can stop hiding behind the "pass the buck" answer. Thanks...

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As for the idea that islanders simply should move, well sure, except that does that mean if someone opens a noisy club within earshot of any other residential area the residents should move?

If the area is a mixed use residential/commerical area then the answer is YES. But in this case the only reason its in earshot is because of the water. On dry land you wouldnt hear the docks at 1 km away. The reason the sound travels into your neighbourhood is simply because of your choice to live next to the water across from a major city. As i said before its called trade offs.

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There are families living on the islands who have been there literally for generations. It doesn't seem like a particularly fair or reasonable solution to tell people who have such strong historical links to a community to move in order to make way for an entertainment facility. So your point about the pub owners being there first could be seen in a different light when it comes to the islanders in question seeing as they were there before the docks.

And so they have been there for generations, good for them. Then they should know what its like to live across from a major city and they should know that they are in fact living in downtown toronto, not some cottage outpost in muskoka. Read below for some history on the past generations of islanders. Seems that they actually knew how to have a good time.

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I know that there are actually a few islanders who work on the party boats, and that the Empire Sandy is owned by a fomer islander, so it would seem counter intuitive to suggest that they want the party boats out of the picture. So I can't really comment on that.

And i bet they are the ones that think their whiner neighbours are nutjobs. If i am not mistaken, its only a portion of the islanders that are screaming about this. Again its my understanding that there are quite a number of islanders that what nothing to do with the complainers when it comes to these matters.

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As for the airport, if i am not mistaken the question is about jets and airport expansion. I think that if there are intercity jets flying into the airport, the waterfront will be pretty unpleasant, including the docks patio and drive-in. This is not opposed just by islanders but by pretty much everyone who lives on the harbour and by the film studios along the water and east as far as Pape. The rock in that snowball is that without expanded commuter air service the airport will continue to bleed money in perpetuity. I think if you support a vibrant waterfront, you should think carefully about whether the amount of air traffic proposed makes sense.

yes so you NIMBYS dont want an airport downtown. The NIMBYS along the airport link to pearson dont want the train noise. The NIMBYS that moved in next to pearson complain about jet noise there. So Which NIMBYS do we appease and which do we ignore? Can you see the problem if we appease everyone who opposes something?

Again, if the mainlanders dont want to live next to an aiport, they should have thought of that when they moved into their new condo. And if the islanders dont like it, they should think about living somewhere where no one else lives and where there is absolutely minimal chance of any development happening in their lifetime.

Progress in a major city is to be expected. We cannot keep toronto sounding like a small town just because a few islanders want to feel like they live in cottage country.

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Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Last edited by Jayx1 on Jul-31-2006 at 19:05

the letter of the day from the toronto sun sums up the difference between this generation of islanders and those that came before them.

Quite the difference. So TO island used to be quite the noisy and happening place for young people? Hmmm so i guess the "generations" excuse isnt valid then. It never really was IMO but i think this puts the nail in that coffin.

I can't wait to hear the whine during the upcoming wakestock!!

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Island used to be a lot of fun Thank you, Christina Blizzard. Finally somebody has got the Islanders' number ("Good life on the island," July 28). My grandparents lived on Hanlan's Point until the city decided to boot them off. The island back then was a lot of fun, like a little town -- Manitou and Pearson hotels on Centre island, grocery stores, hardware stores. We also had Percy the milkman and bread delivery by Harry. Now all you have on the island are a bunch of snotty jerks who think they own the place. Years ago, when you went to Ward's Island, everybody's house was open to you and you were welcomed in for a beer or two. It was always a good time. We even had good dances at the Ward's Island clubhouse in the summer and winter dances at the Algonquin Clubhouse. I can tell you one thing, if The Docks were there back then, half the Islanders would have been over there partying. Janet Kay Brighton

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

Last edited by Jayx1 on Jul-31-2006 at 19:06

My 2 sense...

On Saturday I helped reshingle a roof for about 12 hours and had to go back bright and early sunday morning,,, when I got home to my normally peaceful suburb neighbourhood Saturday evening, I was greeted by blaring music from my newest neighbours home...

When I got out of my car all I could think was, "WHAT A PARTY!" It looked like Gangsta Rap Music Video MEETS The Fast and The Furious... I looked around and their were sweet rides parked everywhere, double parked, parked on 45's, blocking driveways, and most of them had passengers in them with beats absolutely cranked... no one was listening to the same song,,, and it was all trumped by the massive reggae setup in the new neighbours garage...

Do you have a picture of the scene I'm describing??

It's about 10:15pm... I'm exhausted, I shovel some lukewarm leftovers into my body without chewing... I realize that the pictures on my wall ARE vibrating with the mish-mash of beats coming from the various sources... All I can think is "I cannot believe the other neighbours havent complained." My neighbours might put up with a good ol' fashoined hoedown, but not the Tupac MEETS Shabba that was on cue for the evening...

I cannot explain how exhausted I was... to all you roofers out there... BIG UP!!

But no matter how sleepy I was the bass was pounding right through me... I could not drift off into slumber... I thought about going over to join them, but my legs had stopped moving... The music stopped at 1:10am... I fell asleep at 1:11am!

Many of you know why I didn't complain, but for those of you reading these forums to catch up on the common sense side of the issue; here goes...

My neighbour and 50 to 100 of his friends were having a summer party, maybe even his housewarming party, and I'm gonna make a call to disrupt his event... NO FUCKING WAY!! And although my neighbourhood is normally quiet as a church on a friday night, it was not his fault that I had a long hard day of physical labour... It's called urban living, and the tolerance I have for my neighbours partying, would be much higher if I lived smack downtown, or across a small body of water that faces smack downtown... As it's been said many times if you want to live in peace and tranquility don't choose to live in or around an urban centre. If you do choose to live there, then APPRECIATE the quiet moments you do get, the gorgeous sunrises, and sunsets, and deal with the background noise when it is evident.

Jayx1 referred to the tradeoffs involved with urban living and in my opinion the people living on the island have a sweetheart deal that is almost shameful... If I lived there, I would be thankful of everything surrounding me, because it all adds to the beauty of that spot! Once the islanders realize how lucky they are, the complaints will vanish.

~peace

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Originally posted by Jayx1 I can tell you one thing, if The Docks were there back then, half the Islanders would have been over there partying. Janet Kay Brighton

Wowzers,,, Support all the way from Brighton!! Noidge!!

~peace

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exactly just deal with it...stupid wankers

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Originally posted by Tricky_T My 2 sense... On Saturday I helped reshingle a roof for about 12 hours and had to go back bright and early sunday morning,,, when I got home to my normally peaceful suburb neighbourhood Saturday evening, I was greeted by blaring music from my newest neighbours home... When I got out of my car all I could think was, "WHAT A PARTY!" It looked like Gangsta Rap Music Video MEETS The Fast and The Furious... I looked around and their were sweet rides parked everywhere, double parked, parked on 45's, blocking driveways, and most of them had passengers in them with beats absolutely cranked... no one was listening to the same song,,, and it was all trumped by the massive reggae setup in the new neighbours garage... Do you have a picture of the scene I'm describing?? It's about 10:15pm... I'm exhausted, I shovel some lukewarm leftovers into my body without chewing... I realize that the pictures on my wall ARE vibrating with the mish-mash of beats coming from the various sources... All I can think is "I cannot believe the other neighbours havent complained." My neighbours might put up with a good ol' fashoined hoedown, but not the Tupac MEETS Shabba that was on cue for the evening... I cannot explain how exhausted I was... to all you roofers out there... BIG UP!! But no matter how sleepy I was the bass was pounding right through me... I could not drift off into slumber... I thought about going over to join them, but my legs had stopped moving... The music stopped at 1:10am... I fell asleep at 1:11am! Many of you know why I didn't complain, but for those of you reading these forums to catch up on the common sense side of the issue; here goes... My neighbour and 50 to 100 of his friends were having a summer party, maybe even his housewarming party, and I'm gonna make a call to disrupt his event... NO FUCKING WAY!! And although my neighbourhood is normally quiet as a church on a friday night, it was not his fault that I had a long hard day of physical labour... It's called urban living, and the tolerance I have for my neighbours partying, would be much higher if I lived smack downtown, or across a small body of water that faces smack downtown... As it's been said many times if you want to live in peace and tranquility don't choose to live in or around an urban centre. If you do choose to live there, then APPRECIATE the quiet moments you do get, the gorgeous sunrises, and sunsets, and deal with the background noise when it is evident. Jayx1 referred to the tradeoffs involved with urban living and in my opinion the people living on the island have a sweetheart deal that is almost shameful... If I lived there, I would be thankful of everything surrounding me, because it all adds to the beauty of that spot! Once the islanders realize how lucky they are, the complaints will vanish. ~peace

Good for you! Im glad there are still some tolerant neighbours left in this city

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quote:

Originally posted by jester Everything in this country is illegal.

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery…" Winston Churchill

‎"If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law" - Winston Churchill

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Notice they mentioned The Guvernment as the #2 source of noise complaints? If The Docks is shut down - expect The Guvernment to be next on the islander's attack list.

oh dear - and then there really would be a rally!

chanting . . .

WE LUV THE GUV!

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DALLAS STAR ™ °¤§£¤y°

Treat people as if they are what they ought to be and you may help them to become what they are capable of being.