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Vivid Boy
TA's GodFather



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: T.O

okay but u could at least educate urself on whatever has been proven already and make speculations from that...most ppl here are making speculations from absolute nothing...so yes anyone can be right in that matter..ignorance is a bliss...ur always right when ur ignorant on a matter

Old Post Mar-12-2002 01:31 
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torontotrance
I hath returned



Registered: Apr 2001
Location: Toronto
Smile

But isn't that the same with time itself.....no one understands it because time is not physically touchable.......we know that time goes on and most of us have no clue why...........interesting imo.

Old Post Mar-12-2002 01:31  Canada
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SmellsExcellent
fuckedupandconfused



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Shangri-La

Harley, do us all a favor and delete this thread.. people are ruining this for the rest whoi actually want to have an opinion withough getting criticized by the high and mighty. Fucken A you people, whats so bad about having a fun talk about a "mind boggling" topic. And Vivid Boy, everyone is ignorant about time and space and shit like that, everyone except for stephen hawking... lay off, man.

-M


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 02:50 
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SmellsExcellent
fuckedupandconfused



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Shangri-La

and why is it al minnesotans who have to defend people's rights to speak their mind or speak period. if it werent for assholes that go around accusing people of being stupid and shit like that this place would be waaaaaaay better.


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 02:51 
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Vivid Boy
TA's GodFather



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: T.O

you know what smellsexcellent not once did i call anyone stupid and not once did i ruin this thread...i had already said this thread has some nice ideas on it....all i was saying was read up on it...if u guys have a fuckin problem with reading up on a topic then maybe not only are u ignorant but also thick headed as well...jesus ppl like read what is said not what u think ppl said...and tta apologized for his flaming...i never flamed one person so im not going to apologize... and not everyone is ignorant in the ways of time read up on it and u will find there are laws on it as well...proven facts abt it...

Old Post Mar-12-2002 03:10 
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elena
vinyls are sexy



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: nyc

TIMEnly a concept
dont know how else i could explain this. its ONLY a concept that describes the rate of change or change itself. the past present n future only exist because me made up the concept of time. centuries decades hours minutes seconds its all a concept just a label for that general naturally ocurring thing called progression and passing of days and months, which also happen to be man made terms, concepts once again

Old Post Mar-12-2002 03:31 
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SmellsExcellent
fuckedupandconfused



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Shangri-La

quote:
Originally posted by Vivid Boy
you know what smellsexcellent not once did i call anyone stupid and not once did i ruin this thread...i had already said this thread has some nice ideas on it....all i was saying was read up on it...if u guys have a fuckin problem with reading up on a topic then maybe not only are u ignorant but also thick headed as well...jesus ppl like read what is said not what u think ppl said...and tta apologized for his flaming...i never flamed one person so im not going to apologize... and not everyone is ignorant in the ways of time read up on it and u will find there are laws on it as well...proven facts abt it...


"maybe not only are u ignorant but also thick headed as well"
thats a flame.. even though its out of context its what youre sayin about us... and anyways, im not just talking about you. More than one person, now including me, is perpetuating this argument and it sucks to argue over such a trivial commment in the first place. I was just noting my observation that ive been seeing a lot of "flamers" in here that flame people for stupid reasons. seriously im not talking about you only.

Another good discussion topic: if we all "just got along," would life be interesting?

So everyone can we just stop bitching and keep talking about time?

So no worries ok,
Marc


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 04:55 
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astroboy
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Melbourne
random info on black holes

I'm not studying any science (unless you include economics), but I have always found black holes and other trippy modern-physics-related stuff interesting so I thought I would include some stuff about black holes as their seems to be some confusion.

A black hole is an extremely small region of space-time, with a gravitational field so intense that nothing, not even light, can escape. Black holes can be formed by the death, or gravitational collapse of a massive star. When such a star has exhausted its internal thermonuclear fuels at the end of its life, it no longer produces the expansive force (a result of normal gas pressure) that supports the star against the compressive force of its own gravitation. The core of the now “red supergiant” collapses causing a massive explosion called a supernova. If the core remaining after a supernova is more than three solar masses (three times the Sun) the star continues collapse without limit to an indefinitely small size.

Albert Einstein’s general theory of relativity explains gravity in terms of space-time being curved in the vicinity of matter, the greater the concentration of matter, the greater the curvature. Imagine space as a sheet of rubber, a massive object (eg Earth) when placed on this sheet of rubber will cause it to curve - hence objects placed in the vicinity of the object will gravitate towards it, following the trajectory of the curved rubber. Thus when the radius of a collapsing star decreases below the critical Schwarzschild radius (explained below), the extreme curvature of space seals off contact with the outside world. The crushing weight of constituent matter falling in from all sides has compressed the dying star to a theoretical point of zero volume and infinite density, pressure and temperature called the singularity (imagine something infinitely small and reaaally heavy being placed on the 'rubber sheet' - the "curvature" produced would be so extreme that it tears the sheet). The former star is now a black hole, a hole in the fabric of our universe.
Details of the structure of a black hole are calculated from general relativity. The singularity constitutes the centre of a black hole and is hidden by the object's "surface," - the event horizon. Inside the event horizon the escape velocity (i.e., the velocity required for matter to escape from the gravitational field of a cosmic object) exceeds the speed of light, so that not even rays of light can escape into space. Any object sucked into a black hole (say for example your favourite forum troll) would be stretched to infinite length and become infinitely thin, an effect some geek decided to aptly call ‘spaghettification’. The critical radius of the event horizon is called the Schwarzschild radius, after the German astronomer Karl Schwarzschild, who in 1916 predicted the existence of collapsed stellar bodies that emit no radiation. The size of the Schwarzschild radius is thought to be proportional to the mass of the collapsing star (the star’s mass multiplied by twice the constant of gravity and divided by the speed of light squared: 2GM/c2). For a black hole with a mass 10 times as great as that of the Sun, the radius would be 30 km. Only the most massive stars (those of more than three solar masses) become black holes at the end of their lives. Stars with a smaller amount of mass evolve into less compressed bodies, usually either white dwarfs or neutron stars.
The most likely place to find a black hole seems to be in the vicinity of an ordinary star (since a black hole can be detected only by its gravitational effects on nearby matter). If a black hole is a member of a binary star system, matter flowing into it from its companion becomes intensely heated and then radiates X rays copiously before entering the event horizon of the black hole and disappearing forever. The disc of matter spiraling into the black hole is known as an accretion disc. Most physicists now believe that one of the component stars of the binary X-ray system Cygnus X-1 is a black hole. Discovered in 1971 in the constellation Cygnus, this binary consists of a blue supergiant and an invisible companion star that revolve about one another in a period of 5.6 days. When it was discovered, Stephen Hawking (the wheelchair-physicist-dude with the talking computer) won a bet and proudly presented a colleague with a yearly subscription to Penthouse magazine.
Some black holes are thought to have nonstellar origins. In theory, a black hole can form when a mass of any amount is compressed to a sufficient degree. Various astronomers have speculated that large volumes of interstellar gas collect and collapse into supermassive black holes at the centres of quasars and peculiar galaxies (e.g., galactic systems that appear to be exploding). A mass of gas falling rapidly into a black hole is estimated to give off more than 100 times as much energy as is released by the identical amount of mass through nuclear fusion. Accordingly, the collapse of millions or billions of solar masses of interstellar gas under gravitational force into a large black hole would account for the enormous energy output of quasars and certain galactic systems. By the mid-1980s there was mounting observational evidence that a supermassive black hole with a mass four million times that of the Sun exists at the centre of our own Milky Way Galaxy.
The existence of another kind of nonstellar black hole has been proposed by Stephen Hawking (wheelchair dude again, incase you’ve forgotten). According to Hawking's theory, numerous tiny primordial black holes, possibly with a mass equal to that of an asteroid or less, might have been created during the big bang, (for those who dont know- a state of extremely high temperatures and density in which the universe is thought to have originated some 20 billion years ago). These so-called mini black holes, unlike the more massive variety, lose mass over time and disappear. If this were so, many of these black holes could be too far from other matter to form detectable accretion disks, and they could even compose a significant fraction of the total mass of the universe. If you have ever thought black holes are “like gateways into another dimension or sumthin” do not be embarrassed: In reaction to the concept of singularities, Hawking has also proposed that black holes may, rather than collapsing in such manner, instead form “worm holes” to other universes besides our own [insert appropriate spooky soundtrack].


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 05:43  Australia
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Ur Dream Grl
The Lizard Lady



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Ft. lauderdale (USA)

awww...
I was actually discussing with my dad this theory the other day...
like seriously.. i always wonder who really know if there are really 12 months in a year.. 60 minutes in one hour...if birthdays only happen every 12 months... i mean if u really think about it... we are not reallly the age we are supposed to be...and the owrld is not really as old as everyone thinks .. because no one really knows if the the time is accurate...
it is really frustating.. i just blame it on that asshole.. "Edmund hailey" hehehhe

xoxo Ur Dream Grl


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 05:56  Brazil
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DJ_Ballistic
Nu-NRG Addict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Sydney, Australia

During an english class i got told by a physics teacher that time is derived from the speed of light and u can do a simple test to prove it

it was 1 yr ago so i dont remember it that well especially cause i was nearly asleep

but he tried to prove it somehow with a 1 metre long piece of string, with a weight tied to the end of it

swing it like a pendulum (dunno how u spell it, u know this big long things on old clocks) and the time it takes to move from left to right (or vice versa whateva way u push it) it takes exactly 1 second, pending the string stays taught i think or sumthin like that make of it what you will


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Old Post Mar-12-2002 08:19  Australia
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Renegade
____________/



Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Ah, nice work Astroboy. Interesting stuff.

quote:
During an english class i got told by a physics teacher that time is derived from the speed of light and u can do a simple test to prove it

it was 1 yr ago so i dont remember it that well especially cause i was nearly asleep


Yeah, one second is equal to the amount of time it takes a wave of light (or some other wave, can't remember which one exactly) to pass through either 9 million or 9 billion and something wave cycles (don't quote me on that figure, and no, I can't be arsed to look it up). So in the amount of time it takes this wave (again, I can't remember if it was visible light, or X-Rays or Gamma rays or what) to perform a certain, set number of cycles is officially how long a second is. Thus a second can be measured with almost 100% precision (assuming you have the right tools) though I'm not quite sure how they used to measure seconds before the days of proton accelerators. :-/

And also, don't forget that time in the astrophysical sense is quite different to what it is in the every day sense. It's not just a linear thing (1 second, 2 seconds, 3 seconds etc.) it's directly linked with the fabric of space and thus, much rather than being considered a seperate intangible element from everything else, it is actually considered the fourth dimension. And don't bother to picture that btw, are brains are incapable of imagining anything beyond 3D, but a good place to start - like Astroboy said - is to remember that the curvature in 3D space is caused by time (the 4th dimension) and picturing a 3D space curved into 4D is the equivalent of seeing a 2D space (a piece of paper, say) curved into 3 (by folding or bending or scrunching etc.).

It is also important to remember, that as time is directly related to space, it too can be contorted (into the fifth dimension perhaps?) in the same way that 1D, 2D and 3D space can be. Travelling at high speeds confirm this phenomenon: tests done using carefully calibrated atomic clocks (one stationed in a jet fighter, the other on the ground) showed that even travelling at the relatively slow speed of Mach II (or whatever speed those planes travel at) time goes slower at those speeds than it does for one in a stationary position. The pilot, when he emerged from the plane after a few hours flight, was about 0.0000003 seconds younger relative to everyone else when he returned. So, theoretically, if you spent your entire life walking at 5mph you would live for a few micro-seconds longer than you normally would (though it doesn't really mean much seeing as the Earth is travelling at x thousands mph in the first place). But still.....

Mind-boggling shite.

Old Post Mar-12-2002 13:23  Australia
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Renegade
____________/



Registered: May 2001
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Hmmmm.... I must be feeling messier than I thought. :-/

Well I hope the rest of you can understand that, cos I sure as hell can't.

Old Post Mar-12-2002 13:27  Australia
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