quote:

Originally posted by Dj Flesch No offense, but it's pretty short-sighted to think that Techs will always be the best eq out there. it's like people in the 60s thinking that 8 track would be the best, then in the 70s that audio cassette would be the best, then in the 80s that cd would be the best and in the late 90s that md would be the best. Technology evolves. Period. There will come a time pretty soon that hardware manufacturers will only make cd based or mp3 based hardware. Turntables and vinyl have been excellent during the past several decades...even century. Much better technology has come out and all of this technology is digital.

The technics have been the standard for 30 years now, turntable technology hasn't changed much since then, nor will it change much from now on. Digital media replacing vinyl for DJ's? NEVER
Here's why, even though there are products like final scratch and Pioneers CDJ's, they haven't made as great an impact on the DJ industry as people had anticipated, that is because they have one fundamental flaw, they use DIGITAL media.
What's the problem with digital media? it can be shared.
Even if websites started to sell MP3's instead of Vinyl(which they never will) only one person would have to buy the song then within a a matter of seconds it could be shared with DJ's all over the world through the internet. Result = loss of money for the artist and record label. No money = no more music production.
Vinyl will never be replaced simply because it is a physical medium that is expensive to reproduce, the only way to get a copy is to buy it.
Don't get me wrong Final Scratch and the CDJ's are great tools, but their greatest use will be for DJ's to play songs that they have produced themselves, or songs that just haven't been released on vinyl yet.

Well, my original point was that technics are not going to be "the king" forever. I simply stated digital media as its successor because I believe that is the way things will go. It is true that in the past several decades that vinyl technology has not evolved very much. And that is exactly why it will not be the standard for music for much longer. It is nice to keep topics on trance and djing perspectives on this forum, but you touch on a much deeper subject here...that of what the recording industries will decide to print their music on.

Does the latest N'Sync album come out on vinyl? Their may be one or two copies floating out there, but I guarentee you that 99.9+% of all current pop and rock music is pressed on CD and not vinyl. This is because the general populous doesn't have, use or want vinyl or TTs. You can't take a walk while listening to your records, you can't go work out, drive around etc with vinyl--it is not a portable medium. This is what makes CD so useful. It is small (compact), it is very wear and tear resistant, you don't have to worry about it warping most of the time and they are cheaper to make, reproduce, package and sell. In short, the profit margin on them is MUCH higher than with vinyl, this is why you can buy a cd-single for $6-$7 but the same vinyl single will usually be several dollars more--and sometimes with less tracks!

So thinking that vinyl will be around forever is very shortsided because you are only looking from the dj perspective of it. This aside, you mentioned "Even if websites started to sell MP3's instead of Vinyl(which they never will) only one person would have to buy the song then within a a matter of seconds it could be shared with DJ's all over the world through the internet" There are such websites--I can't remember the website off the top of my head, but when I get home, I'll dig it up and see if it's still around.

As far as products like final scratch and CDJs not making a great impact, how can you say that? You offered up an opinion, not a fact. Have you interviewed or read interviews with top djs saying that cds don't have a significant impact? I've most often seen it as a topic that comes up frequently, and that frequency speaks for itself. Vinyl has not gone away sooner because there are still a lot of people who buy it...people that are not willing to learn or not willing to divide their music collection up into two mediums or whatever. The demand is still there, so the vinyl is still made. The digital equipment is rapidly changing to affect this though! Why do you think that technics has made their newest TT? Nothing is different but a few nice blue LEDs...no new technology, not really any new features, but it still has to stay competative with other products or it will be left in the dust.

To touch on your last point that, "Vinyl will never be replaced simply because it is a physical medium that is expensive to reproduce, the only way to get a copy is to buy it." As I said just before, I think that vinyl will be replaced BECAUSE is is expensive to reproduce. It behooves the manufactures and recording companies to invest in a new technology that will eliminate a cd's ability to be reproduced because of the profit margins. You are basically saying that the printing press shouldn't have been invented because stone tablets were the best way to stop copyright infringement. Does that make sense to you?

To expand a little further, vinyl will also die out due to quality and clairity of sound reasons too. Vinyl degrades, digital media doesn't. The SuperAudioCD (SACD) is already on the market...it will slowly take over as more and more music becomes available for purchase and the players become cheaper and portable. The quality of a SACD far surpasses that of normal cds and vinyl and the quality of an SACD will never degrade every time you play it.

I touched on these topics in the vinyl vs cd sticky thread if you are interested in the other thoughts I have on this, but I won't repeat them here.

___________________
When you dance, the DJ takes you on a journey, but he or she is usually not the focus of your experience at a club or festival or wherever you hear the music. Dancing is. Music is.

You speak of the mainstream music market, of course Vinyl has been replaced in that area. But as long as there are clubs, and I think there will be for a very long time, there will be DJ's, and for the most part these DJ's will continue to use vinyl.
Yes my comment on Final Scracth and CDJ's was an opinion but it was an educated one, since their release I haven't seen much of a change in the way DJ's perform their sets. I have seen CDJ's at clubs and for the most part they have only been used for unreleased songs.
As for final scratch, I have yet to see a DJ use it other than richie hawtin, john aquaviva i.e the guys who are out there promoting it.

In any case you are correct technology evolves, but you didn't really touch on the issue of PIRACY. Yes I know there are websites that already sell mp3's, but those are for the mainstream music market. I'm talking about DJ stores. Here's my point:
until they firgure a way to crack down on the piracy issue, vinyl will not be replaced. And my point about Vinyl being expensive to reproduce was meant to re-enforce the piracy issue, how many peole do you know of that own a Vinyl press??? hmmm Zero!
How many people do you know of that own a CD-R drive???? pretty much everyone that owns a computer.
Your comment about the printing press has no relevance here, how many people personally owned a printing press? umm zero
Get my point?
The problem with digital media is that the average person can reproduce it at very little cost. The means of reproduction has not been restriced as it has in the case of Vinyl or in your example the printing press.

Yes Digital media has a superior sound quality, but at a club would you be even able to tell the difference between a Vinyl and a CD???
I know I can't, because the sound quality is more heavily dependent on other factors i.e speakers, speaker setup, amplifiers, eq's on the mixer etc.
If you can't tell the difference between the two, then is there really any point to change the medium??? the only main advantage a CD has for a DJ is that it takes up less space.

Vinyl may be replaced in the DJ industry, but I don't see it happening for quite a long time.

The worst thing I can see is this. As I have already seen, many pc's are used in clubs for djing. The clubs dont mind. Cdj's are used all the time. However with this pcdjing i hope one day that djing doesn't become completely a digital medium because if it does, it will not be djing anymore will it? Maybe one day, the DJ will be posolete and all you'll need is a computer and a tracklist and your "AI DJ" will automatically mix them. This is farsighted, but it's in no way out of perspective. I believe vinyl may be replaced, but i still think if it all works out nicely, it will all "look" the same. For example, final scratch has shown this. For the scratch scene, something about vinyl makes it have its flair. A CDJ will look just stupid next to vinyl turntables in a scratch competition. Spinning you're little cdj around, it doesn't go with the image. What's next? An MDJ? Heh, a tiny little mdj spinning... you can fit it in your pocket and spin it with your finger...lol. Djing may go digital, but it may just end up being upgraded vinyl with digital signalling.
This is all just my views on the subjects. As I still think CDJ's and FS are great tools, however not replacements, just additions. Mixing with a cdj is perfectly fine, as with FS, but I hope it doesn't get to a point where it becomes stupidity. You kno?
My opinions.

quote:

Originally posted by DJLocoMoco The technics have been the standard for 30 years now, turntable technology hasn't changed much since then, nor will it change much from now on. Digital media replacing vinyl for DJ's? NEVER Here's why, even though there are products like final scratch and Pioneers CDJ's, they haven't made as great an impact on the DJ industry as people had anticipated, that is because they have one fundamental flaw, they use DIGITAL media. What's the problem with digital media? it can be shared. Even if websites started to sell MP3's instead of Vinyl(which they never will) only one person would have to buy the song then within a a matter of seconds it could be shared with DJ's all over the world through the internet. Result = loss of money for the artist and record label. No money = no more music production. Vinyl will never be replaced simply because it is a physical medium that is expensive to reproduce, the only way to get a copy is to buy it. Don't get me wrong Final Scratch and the CDJ's are great tools, but their greatest use will be for DJ's to play songs that they have produced themselves, or songs that just haven't been released on vinyl yet.

First, a disclaimer . . . Although I am a vynil addict to the core and will resist the move towards digital media as long as possible, there is no denying that it is inevitable.

I read an interview with Tiesto where he stated he used a lot of CD-Rs, and that it was about time for the industry to leave vinyl behind because "its the year 2002." I'll try to dig up the link later.

Also, at the rate that CD sales are declining, its only a matter of time before there are major changes in the way music is produced and distributed. What those changes are, I don't know, but they are coming. Digital media and mp3 is the future, as much as we don't want it to be.

Edit: One final point . . . realistically, vynil is just about the worst recoding media that exists. Horrible durability, sound quality quickly degrades, expensive, big and heavy to transport . . . the list goes on and on. It's only a matter of time . . .

Last edited by club4life on May-17-2003 at 16:27

I know most people in this forum would be big trance fans (including myself), but with tiesto saying to move away from vinyl is one thing, as really just a pure mix DJ. If you were to ask a scratch DJ, you're answer would be opposite. I know Plus One showed interest in the CDJ's where you can scratch, however I'm sure he, and others would unanimously be against a digital conversion. DJing didn't start with mixing, it started with scratching and switch-overs and the like. Obviously, for someone like Tiesto, he has no use for vinyl turntables in comparison with using cdj's, but it's a different picture if you look elsewhere. Digital conversion won't be looked on quite as favorably.
I just hope there's a better way than completely abondoning the origination of DJing. CDJ's and FS are great. But that doesn't mean that vinyl has to be abandoned. You can use either or, digital conversion has a long way to fly into becoming the mainstream.
I just hope it doesn't turn soon. Otherwise becoming a producer will be stupid, because sales will be low from piracy. Tiesto using cdr's doesn't matter, he gets them sent to him for free by producer's hoping to get their track heard. For the rest of us, would he as happy if we used his tracks to make pirated cdr's? I doubt it.

Last edited by ChavezHype on May-18-2003 at 18:20

Why are people so ignorant??? Seriously, do you honestly think that the Technics company would just let other companies take over... You gotta be fucking kidding. Guaranteed, Tech's already have something in mind and developed... This is a poker game they never loose, you come with a straight and Technics will always have a Royal Flush!!

Once the MK5's start becoming alittle more affordable, and actually make the official debut in the US and other places... We will be saying Numark who?? Vestex what??

Another thing, you people talk with too many words, simply put Tech's wont die unless they kill themselves, and thats my final answer.

___________________
/SARCASM.

quote:

Originally posted by Coup Vlad wins. Flawless victory.

You wanna know the truth about technics? They have a few more years left as dominant turntable. Why? It's because they have screwed themselves already. For one thing, the MK5's are only imports from Japan, 30th anniversary editions with nothing really new about them. A blue LED, carts and a slipmat? Gimme a break. When they were releasing a new table, I thought it would be to counter any of the new turntables being released, but it's really just to make some added profiteering by making the table prettier, yet the same.
Why is technics screwed? 2 reasons. 1. the reason clubs now continue to have techs is because they don't have to upgrade, saves them a bundle on equipment. As long as The Techs remain the same, the standards will be the same and thus they only will need to upgrade every so often years from regualar wear. However, whne Technics ever decides to come out with a new deck that counter's the other vestax and numarks and stantons, that will force the clubs to upgrade, as their equipment will become obsolete. At which point, the competing tables will be a much cheaper option, not to mention most likely just as good. 2. If Technics doesn't upgrade, after a while when the clubs will still have to eventually start to have to upgrade, they will purchase the competitors' tables because they will be cheaper and better. After so many years, unless the competing tuntables fall apart, they will be proven reliable and will be seen across the clublands. And when clubs stop using the technics always, they no longer are the standard.

Yes this could be completely wrong but I did raise some valid points.

Last edited by ChavezHype on May-21-2003 at 18:21

quote:

Originally posted by verminator Technics 1210 MK5

What is the diffrence between the MK5 en MK2?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by basvh What is the diffrence between the MK5 en MK2?

Yes tell me please

Like I said, Tech's will only die unless they kill themselves.. and according to what your saying... seems like they have began their very slow and painful deteriation... and yea I did just buy Tech's, but what does that have to do with anything... Tech's are the shit... and will be until its no longer "the standard" or unless they break, which we all know doesnt happen too quickly

___________________
/SARCASM.

quote:

Originally posted by Coup Vlad wins. Flawless victory.