quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I disagree on the Native Americans behalf. It was the Americans who pushed them out using far superior weapons and technology, and genocidal methods like smallpox towels and other forms of disease (its funny how these are not considered as genocide of the native peoples). Natives werent a one powerful country fighting against United States. They were scarsely populated groups all over Americas that just wanted to live on their lands, in peace. And American government eventually pushed them out onto small native reserves where some of the rituals are STILL prohibited, and medicines (including halucinogenic herbs) that Natives used for many thousands of years before the Europeans even formed first empires on the European continent. As I said before, its more appropriately to call all these policies expansionist in nature - even though you might have lived on your land along with predecessors for eons, I came to your land, defeated you and its mine now. And you have to follow my laws, speak my language, and forget your culture.

Very well said Magnetomium

People on the pro-Israeli camp constantly utilize the argument that "israel won the land by war".

So first.. the Arabs rejected the UN partition.. and the Jews accepted. Then the Jews VIOLATED the partition in order to expand their borders and cleanse the population with their organized terror squads (that later became the IDF) then they create their country ontop of 536 depopulated and destroyed villages,communities and neighborhoods, and then complain that they were attacked beucase they are "just jews"

Give me a fuckin break.

You go into a land... destroy the people and their homes.. make your own country on displaced peoples land.. and then you want PEACE???? AHAHAHA

ontop of that.. they didnt even withdraw from the original borders that were given to them by the UN.. they violated that!!!

So basically Capitalizt... America has full OWNERSHIP of Iraq then right????

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"This place isn't big enough for me to blow it up."
-MARCO V

The bottom line Cyrus, is that both parties have elements that want all the land. Until both parties can root those elements out, nothing will get accomplished. The only solution here is compromise, and the Israelis have a much higher hand, so they are in a position to negotiate. All the Palestinians can negotiate with is bombs, so they do. All this does, is strengthen the radical elements on the Israeli side. And so on and so forth.

That 10 year old Palestinian girl that was shot. Her brothers, cousins, etc. will die for her in 15 years fighting a war started in 48. What is the use? Peace is the only option for life.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

Yes, Jews have suffered through the ages. But it does not justify what they're doing with Palestinians. All their actions only justify the anti-semitism around the world because one little negative thing the Jewish state does can be magnified a hundred times. You see, they went in to the Middle East boldly believing that the whole woorld will allow them to have an independent state based on their suffering in World War II, and massacres of Jews throughout the ages. However, now they're stuck in the never-ending cycle of violence and are literally living off, barely alive, off the support of United States. And what if that ends? Will the Jewish suffering end?

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Yes, Jews have suffered through the ages. But it does not justify what they're doing with Palestinians. All their actions only justify the anti-semitism around the world because one little negative thing the Jewish state does can be magnified a hundred times. You see, they went in to the Middle East boldly believing that the whole woorld will allow them to have an independent state based on their suffering in World War II, and massacres of Jews throughout the ages. However, now they're stuck in the never-ending cycle of violence and are literally living off, barely alive, off the support of United States. And what if that ends? Will the Jewish suffering end?

this suffering rant has nothing to do with my post above it, what are you replying to?

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Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

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Originally posted by Dopey this suffering rant has nothing to do with my post above it, what are you replying to?

You're pretty damn ignorant if you think it doesn't. Zionism has been around for a while, except there was virtually no support for it amongst European Jews before WW2 and the holocaust. It has everything to do with it.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by Cyrus King You go into a land... destroy the people and their homes.. make your own country on displaced peoples land.. and then you want PEACE???? AHAHAHA

I think you just summed it up. Although I don't think it had any impact on the hypocrites here. They'd rather pretent to care about the Jewish people in order to get over their guilt than have learned anything from it. People interested in feeling good about themselves as opposed to having the decency and humility to change that about themselves don't truly believe in anything IMO. It's entirely disingenuos and selfish. They don't care about the Jews or the Arabs, they're just interested in superficial boosts to their ego.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You're pretty damn ignorant if you think it doesn't. Zionism has been around for a while, except there was virtually no support for it amongst European Jews before WW2 and the holocaust. It has everything to do with it.

how does any of this have to do with my post which was about compromise? you think there is a solution that doesn't involve compromise? I don't understand the point being made. I said nothing about Jews taking the land legally. All I said is that the extremist forces on both sides aren't helping anything.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

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Originally posted by Dopey how does any of this have to do with my post which was about compromise? you think there is a solution that doesn't involve compromise? I don't understand the point being made. I said nothing about Jews taking the land legally. All I said is that the extremist forces on both sides aren't helping anything.

Well technically it does, but I won't bother with that. But you're right, a compromise needs to be made, atleast as a temporary first step. To bad the Zionism by it's very nature is uncompromisnig, and the cause for more extreme elements on eigther side to begin with.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z To bad the Zionism by it's very nature is uncompromisnig, and the cause for more extreme elements on eigther side to begin with.

I don't think Zionism is uncompromising nowadays. I think if there could be an assured peace, no Jew in the world would stand in the way of major concessions to the Palestinians. Nobody wants to see more bloodshed, nobody but extremists.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

Here is the Palestinian idea of compromise.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King You go into a land... destroy the people and their homes.. make your own country on displaced peoples land.. and then you want PEACE???? AHAHAHA

Sure, why not? Everyone else did it with no problem.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You're pretty damn ignorant if you think it doesn't. Zionism has been around for a while, except there was virtually no support for it amongst European Jews before WW2 and the holocaust. It has everything to do with it.

Actually you are misinformed:
Balfour Deceleration happened in 1917 (with the support of British, i.e. European Jewry) after WWI before WWII and the holocaust. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfou...aration_of_1917

There were large waves of immigrants to Israel from Europe before Nazi persecution from Russia and many Eastern European nations in the 1890s and 1910s.

But its a mute argument: The Palestinian movement didn't exist till the 1960s. So who cares how new of a phenomena zionism is? Palestinianism is so new there isn't even a term for it yet...

Also the first organized new Jewish settlments started to spring up in Israel around 1900s.

So you can say that perhaps most the Jewish people were not interested in the idea, but I could counter that most secular Jews were.

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