Become a part of the TranceAddict community!Frequently Asked Questions - Please read this if you haven'tSearch the forums
TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > hussein hanged!! whats your thoughts?
Pages (7): « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Share
Author
Thread    Post A Reply
shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by pmoisse
I totally agree with you on this one. Further to that, Saddam and his party came to power in a coup d'etat as well, the difference was that there's was successful. The Dujail assasination wasn't and the perpetrators (and innocents) paid a heavy price for it.


With the help of the Western intelligence and "interests."


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Jan-02-2007 07:34  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for shaolin_Z Click here to Send shaolin_Z a Private Message Add shaolin_Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Shibby
but..but.. he watered the weeds and fed the birds.


I water my plants, feed the rainbow lorikeets some jam and I'm nice to cats and dogs.
Sadly I dont think this is going to be much of a legal defence if I start randomly culling young men in hatchbacks that play their rap & house music too loud and wear tracksuits as some kind of fashion statement.... sadly

Old Post Jan-02-2007 07:39 
Click Here to See the Profile for Lilith Click here to Send Lilith a Private Message Add Lilith to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith

In any case, he was never getting off whichever way he squirmed.


Yeah, but that has nothing to with genocide, torture, or anything petty like that . His real crime was being of little use to Western interests in the region and therefore becoming disposable, ready for being replaced with someone else. And by Western, I mean nation states which have nothing to do with the people or democratic institutional structures. The parasitic existance of Corporations don't only have ramifications in their states of origin; far worst effects are felt elsewhere where there's even less accountability for their actions (more like none). The military industrial complex can't sustain itself when there's a lack of demand in the market place. War is profit. So is raping other nations with valuable resources. But that only one aspect to it, a very pervasive and important one nonetheless, ever since WW2. Then ofcourse you've got the neocon agenda pretty much clearly layed out in a publicly available document for the most part, PNAC.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Jan-02-2007 14:14  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for shaolin_Z Click here to Send shaolin_Z a Private Message Add shaolin_Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Lilith
Meowsies!



Registered: Nov 2000
Location: Maximum Security twilight home for cats

Little more complicated than just the western interests he was of use too, mostly the massive borrowing off neighbouring 'friendly' arab states and his primary armaments supplier the USSR being disolved and no longer able to assist on any kind of diplomatic level.
It's also not as simple as 'oil' as a lot of people believe... oil was a part of it but the entire rebuilding in Iraq has a somewhat huge pricetag to it as well which is in the best interests of the USA's economy and their coalition partners. From the looks of it though, the US has been quite miserly at least in giving Australia any contracts to rebuild infrastructure but I dont know about the UK.

disclaimer-
Lilith is inebriated, dont expect decent spelling or anything

Old Post Jan-02-2007 14:28 
Click Here to See the Profile for Lilith Click here to Send Lilith a Private Message Add Lilith to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
shaolin_Z
Hei Hu Quan



Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas, USA: TXTA #102

quote:
Originally posted by Lilith
Little more complicated than just the western interests he was of use too, mostly the massive borrowing off neighbouring 'friendly' arab states and his primary armaments supplier the USSR being disolved and no longer able to assist on any kind of diplomatic level.
It's also not as simple as 'oil' as a lot of people believe... oil was a part of it but the entire rebuilding in Iraq has a somewhat huge pricetag to it as well which is in the best interests of the USA's economy and their coalition partners. From the looks of it though, the US has been quite miserly at least in giving Australia any contracts to rebuild infrastructure but I dont know about the UK.

disclaimer-
Lilith is inebriated, dont expect decent spelling or anything


I agree it's much bigger than the economic benefits of having the nation's oil controlled by mutlinational corporations, it's much bigger than that and oil is only part of the picture. A very important one nonetheless, which is related to strategic interests. It's quite simple to understand really. It's the one resource the entire world is dependant on and sparsely availability as far as abundant sources go.

Note: Eventhough I'm skeptical of the peak oil theory, it's not a required assumption at all. It's kind of irrelevant in determining weather and the upper hand is gained or not by controlling key stategic locations.


___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Old Post Jan-02-2007 15:04  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for shaolin_Z Click here to Send shaolin_Z a Private Message Add shaolin_Z to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
star-traveller
Kill All Humans



Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Amsterdam, NL

He was a great man and a leader. It's a pity to see him getting killed by the non-democratic court with a sanction of the nation who believe it fights for the democracy in that region. I just feel sad after knowning all that.

Old Post Jan-03-2007 15:04  Europe
Click Here to See the Profile for star-traveller Click here to Send star-traveller a Private Message Add star-traveller to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Omega_M
Nostalgia



Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Ether

An interesting article.

quote:

Saddam Hussein execution: A sectarian lynching
Thu, 2007-01-04 01:23

By Patrick Martin – World Socialist Web Site

A video of the final minutes of Saddam Hussein, released to the Arab media late Saturday and widely broadcast around the world, demonstrates that the execution of the former Iraqi president was an act of sectarian vengeance by the Shiite Muslim groups placed in power by the US invasion of the country.

The video, apparently made using the cell phone of one of the guards or official witnesses in the death chamber, records the last fragments of conversation between Hussein and his hooded executioners, who were apparently loyal to the Shiite radical clergyman Moqtada al-Sadr, head of the most powerful militia force in Iraq, the Mahdi Army.

Several of the executioners and witnesses began chanting the name of the Shiite leader, "Moqtada, Moqtada, Moqtada," as the noose was slipped around Hussein’s neck. He responded with surprise, and then a scornful retort, "Moqtada? Is this how real men behave?"

Other onlookers chanted the name of Moqtada al-Sadr’s father—a co-founder of the Dawa Party, one of the backers of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki—and one shouted, "Go to hell," to which Hussein responded that those responsible for his execution had erected a "gallows of shame."

Even the judge who had ratified the death sentence, Munir Haddad, reproached the sectarian outburst by the Shiite guards, telling them, "Please no! The man is about to die." The video then concludes with grisly footage of the trapdoor opening and Hussein plunging to his death, his neck broken and his body swinging.
Beyond the events recorded on the video, the very fact that Mahdi Army loyalists were among the guards in the death chamber and could record the proceedings without hindrance has enormous political significance. It demonstrates the extent to which the US-backed Iraqi regime has become the instrument of factions in the sectarian conflict raging throughout much of Iraq.

For nearly a year, Sunni Muslims, Christians, secular Iraqis and others targeted by Shiite death squads have been hunted down, tortured and murdered. Most of these atrocities have begun with the seizure of the victims by armed members of the Iraqi police and military—the very forces the Bush administration claims it has been training to fight "terrorism."

By Monday, with the digital recording circulating throughout Iraq and the entire Arab and Muslim world, it was clear that for the Maliki government and the US occupation regime the execution had become a political debacle. Thousands of Sunnis marched in protest demonstrations in Tikrit, Mosul and cities and towns throughout Anbar province. In Samarra, where the bombing of the Shiite Golden Mosque last February touched off the sectarian warfare, Sunnis marched through the shattered structure with a coffin representing Saddam Hussein’s.

The Maliki government, in a belated effort to distance itself from the images of Shiite triumphalism, ordered an investigation into how the video was shot in the death chamber and how it was distributed. But at least one eyewitness, one of the prosecutors in Hussein’s trial, said that the cell phone was brought in by a top government official, whom he would not name, not by a guard, and that the recording of the final altercation between the guards and Hussein was done quite openly.

Detailed reports in the US media conceded that the execution had backfired on the Bush administration. An account published in the New York Times Monday observed that it would be difficult for the White House to disassociate itself from the rushed execution of the former president, since the hanging took place at a US-controlled military facility in Baghdad, and Hussein remained in US custody until he was handed over to the executioners.

The article, co-authored by John Burns, the Times bureau chief in Baghdad and one of the most avid apologists for the war, noted that "Iraq’s new Shiite rulers . . . seemed bent on turning the execution and its aftermath into a new nightmare for the Sunni minority privileged under Mr. Hussein."

The Times reported that US officials in Iraq were "privately incensed at the dead-of-night rush to the gallows," and had repeatedly urged the Maliki government to delay the execution by a few weeks in order to conform to provisions in the Iraqi constitution and legal code, requiring approval of the hanging by the three-member Iraqi presidency, and barring executions during the celebration of Id al-Adha, a Muslim religious holiday.

The timing was perhaps the most brazenly sectarian aspect of the execution, since Saturday is the first day of Id al-Adha, according to the Sunni practice, while the holiday begins on Sunday for Shiites. One official effectively declared the Shiite observance to be the law of the land, and, as the Times revealed, the Shiite clergy were given final decision-making power, not the elected government.

The Times reported that the Maliki government had debated objections from US officials and Sunni politicians over conducting the execution on Saturday, then decided to refer the decision to the marjaiyah, the council of ayatollahs in the Shiite holy city of Najaf, which is the highest body of the Shiite clergy. According to the Times, "The ayatollahs approved. Mr. Maliki, at a few minutes before midnight on Friday, then signed a letter to the justice minister, ‘to carry out the hanging until death.’"

The Times concluded with the remarkable admission, "None of the Iraqi officials were able to explain why Mr. Maliki had been unwilling to allow the execution to wait. Nor would any explain why those who conducted it had allowed it to deteriorate into a sectarian free-for-all that had the effect, on the video recordings, of making Mr. Hussein, a mass murderer, appear dignified and restrained, and his executioners, representing Shiites who were his principal victims, seem like bullying street thugs."

A second article in Monday’s Times reinforced this picture by reporting the reaction among Sunni Arabs in Baghdad: "the grainy recording of the execution’s cruel theater summed up what has become increasingly clear on the streets of the capital: that the Shiite-led government that assumed power in the American effort here is running the state under an undisguised sectarian banner."

The Associated Press, in a report on the Sunni response to the execution, noted that the hanging was followed by a US military raid on the Baghdad offices of a prominent Sunni politician, in which six Iraqis were killed, and warned, "The current Sunni protests, which appear to be building, could signal a spreading militancy."

Rizgar Mohammed Amin, the Kurdish judge who presided over the first trial of Saddam Hussein until he was forced to resign by official pressure from the ruling Shiite bloc, condemned the timing and manner of the execution. The hanging violated a clear legal prohibition (enacted under Hussein’s rule and still in force) stating that "no verdict should be implemented during the official holidays or religious festivals," Amin told Associated Press.
The cell phone video of the execution of Hussein demonstrates the reality of the "democracy" which the US invasion has brought to Iraq. The invasion has destroyed the framework of the Iraqi state, exacerbated social tensions, and provoked an explosion of sectarian violence at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. The continuing US occupation—in which American and British troops continue to kill thousands of Iraqis even as murder squads operate on both sides of the Sunni/Shiite divide—has brought about not the flowering of "freedom," but the virtual dissolution of Iraqi society.


Source

One more interesting article I read in NYTimes yesterday on Bush's Iraq policy.

Chaos Overran Iraq Plan in ’06, Bush Team Says


___________________

Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

Old Post Jan-03-2007 18:31  India
Click Here to See the Profile for Omega_M Click here to Send Omega_M a Private Message Add Omega_M to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
_Ocean_Drive_
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Iwate

In a nut-shell, I think the whole thing was wrong. He should've been put in prison for the rest of his life. Hanging is barbaric, neanderthal and will make absolutely no difference to the situation in Iraq.


___________________
quote:
Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time.

There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

Old Post Jan-03-2007 23:13  Japan
Click Here to See the Profile for _Ocean_Drive_ Click here to Send _Ocean_Drive_ a Private Message Add _Ocean_Drive_ to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yeah, but that has nothing to with genocide, torture, or anything petty like that . His real crime was being of little use to Western interests in the region and therefore becoming disposable, ready for being replaced with someone else. And by Western, I mean nation states which have nothing to do with the people or democratic institutional structures. The parasitic existance of Corporations don't only have ramifications in their states of origin; far worst effects are felt elsewhere where there's even less accountability for their actions (more like none). The military industrial complex can't sustain itself when there's a lack of demand in the market place. War is profit. So is raping other nations with valuable resources. But that only one aspect to it, a very pervasive and important one nonetheless, ever since WW2. Then ofcourse you've got the neocon agenda pretty much clearly layed out in a publicly available document for the most part, PNAC.


boy that sounds fantastic and entertaining, almost the stuff of movies, but as always lacks any coherence or depth regarding the sheer numbers on the ground doing there best to kill each other.

you're too far removed from any reality of genocide and torture to make a judgement on an Iraqi dictator's motives and 30 odd years of American foreign policy towards percieved threats in the Middle East, real or fabricated.

it's corporations and PNAC. you figured it out.

Old Post Jan-04-2007 05:38  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Q5echo Click here to Send Q5echo a Private Message Add Q5echo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Yeah, but that has nothing to with genocide, torture, or anything petty like that . His real crime was being of little use to Western interests in the region and therefore becoming disposable, ready for being replaced with someone else. And by Western, I mean nation states which have nothing to do with the people or democratic institutional structures. The parasitic existance of Corporations don't only have ramifications in their states of origin; far worst effects are felt elsewhere where there's even less accountability for their actions (more like none). The military industrial complex can't sustain itself when there's a lack of demand in the market place. War is profit. So is raping other nations with valuable resources. But that only one aspect to it, a very pervasive and important one nonetheless, ever since WW2. Then ofcourse you've got the neocon agenda pretty much clearly layed out in a publicly available document for the most part, PNAC.


its good to see shaolin start 2007 off with some really nice craziness

the military industrial complex? are you saying you believe there are american military companies that somehow control events & a government's foreign policy to such a degree as to actually be able to generate wars?

you also think the PNAC document has plans for 9/11 clearly laid out


___________________

Old Post Jan-04-2007 10:49  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for pkcRAISTLIN Click here to Send pkcRAISTLIN a Private Message Add pkcRAISTLIN to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
Q5echo
asymetrical scepticism



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Dallas



it's hard to believe this guy keeps ShaolinZ up all night quivering in his race car bed.

Old Post Jan-04-2007 11:04  United States
Click Here to See the Profile for Q5echo Click here to Send Q5echo a Private Message Add Q5echo to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message
pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Q5echo
his race car bed.


fucken lol


___________________

Old Post Jan-04-2007 11:09  Australia
Click Here to See the Profile for pkcRAISTLIN Click here to Send pkcRAISTLIN a Private Message Add pkcRAISTLIN to your buddy list Report this Post Reply w/Quote Edit/Delete Message

TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > hussein hanged!! whats your thoughts?
Post New Thread    Post A Reply

Pages (7): « 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 »  
Last Thread   Next Thread
Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackhuge tune [2003] [4]

Click here to listen to the sample!Pause playbackSasha - "Rabbitweed" [2003]

Show Printable Version | Subscribe to this Thread
Forum Jump:

All times are GMT. The time now is 22:47.

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
Search this Thread:

 
Contact Us - return to tranceaddict

Powered by: Trance Music & vBulletin Forums
Copyright ©2000-2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Privacy Statement / DMCA
Support TA!