quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Its sometimes a bit hard to take any kind of moral high ground when youre as dirty as the rest, so perhaps try being a bit more objective perhaps and keep the personal hatreds out of it?

And what proof do you have "he's as dirty as the rest"?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo while i want to say thats bullshit, i'll have to take your word for it.

I guess I should add unless they demonstrate they're completely irrational, indoctrinated, or don't have any principles, and that fact is relevant to their arguemnt. But if they make a valid argument, it's a valid arguemnt. But erdega is far from any of those in case you're wondering. Your bullshit claim of him being "anti-white" speaks volumes about your credibility on the other hand.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I just find a nasty sentiment of hatred if you where to put a comparison between what Slobodan Milosevic got up too and what Saddam Hussein, along with the resulting effects of the US in their countries to topple their dictatorships.
Neither are admirable leaders who commited horrific acts, yet young men seem drawn to them as some kind of rolemodel. I just really dont understand this kind of sentiment, I really dont just as much as I loathe what the US government is doing around the world. Theres just no justification in my mind to wish for the death of anyone overseas in the US armed forces.
By all means, wish Bush was dead or at least removed as well but wishing for the death of soldiers? Especially with the current, complicated situation in Iraq is just horrible, a lot dont want to be there and wriggling out of a contract with the US armed forces isnt exactly something you can do very easily.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith I just find a nasty sentiment of hatred if you where to put a comparison between what Slobodan Milosevic got up too and what Saddam Hussein, along with the resulting effects of the US in their countries to topple their dictatorships. Neither are admirable leaders who commited horrific acts, yet young men seem drawn to them as some kind of rolemodel.

I don't recall ergada praising any othem.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith I just really dont understand this kind of sentiment, I really dont just as much as I loathe what the US government is doing around the world. Theres just no justification in my mind to wish for the death of anyone overseas in the US armed forces.

If they're torturing/raping/murdering innoccent people, I can easily understand why people would want to see them six feet under. I've posted articles etc about that stuff countless times. The US forces are agressors there, far worse than the terroirsts.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith By all means, wish Bush was dead or at least removed as well but wishing for the death of soldiers? Especially with the current, complicated situation in Iraq is just horrible, a lot dont want to be there and wriggling out of a contract with the US armed forces isnt exactly something you can do very easily.

Read above.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Tell me do you find it sick of American generals to be celebrating murder of civilians or trying to misrepresent it?

example? i sincerely want to answer your question but i'm gonna need an example.

quote:

Do you find it sick to have journalists like Bill O'Reilly who has a top show on television and Thomas Friedman the main foreign editor of NYT to be constantly dehumanizing civilians in foreign lands and inciting their murder for a national megalomania ?

this war has nothing to do with O'rielly or the NYT or any media for that matter. the media is a consequence of the war, not the other way around and not the way you are trying to portray it.

quote:

Americans are occupiers and thus solely responsible for safety of people and property.

agreed

quote:

There wasn't any comparable violence before Americans came thus Iraqis have full right to kill american soldiers.

thats a very simplistic view and Saddam is said to have killed a million Iraqis, but it's yours and i respect that. however, the Iraqi people killing Americans are also killing 10 times more Iraqis. the other people killing Americans aren't even from Iraq. that should be unacceptable to anyone including you. and if you truly believe that American soldiers are the protectors (which they undeniably are) then you must find yourself in a moral quandry, a double standard.

Iraqis have the full right to kill Americans is wrong for one reason. the Courts just killed Saddam for what you accuse the Americans of doing. the courts want us to stay.

and your natural reaction would be, "well, the courts must be complicit with the AngloAmerican murderers". right?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Your bullshit claim of him being "anti-white" speaks volumes about your credibility on the other hand.

more argumetative ad hominem. didn't you just say something about that? you want to start talking about my cock again? it's prolly killin ya, right?

i just reacting to what HE wrote, man. im not a frikken mind reader.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo more argumetative ad hominem. didn't you just say something about that?

Nope. Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem. It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I mean really.
Where is the sense to all this?

Red team we've got the boys cheering on their dead dictator that got to power with assassination and continued for many years engaging in wars that killed and wounded millions.
Blue team the boys are cheering for the retarded, cashed up trash that made good by jerrymandering the votes and continued for many years engaging in wars that killed and wounded millions.

Whats to admire?
0
Spare me the crud about how both men did what they thought was right or made their country something to be respected, neither have contributed anything to the world but wide ranging destabilisation.

And at the end of the day theres the little people down the bottom, just like you, me, him, her and regardless of our political interests and cultural backgrounds we all seem to have fallen into that trap of hatred, violence and venom for one another. Which is and always will be the mark of stupidity on our own behalf because we're ignoring the fact that the people in power and the people responsible for this have absolutely no redeeming features and distracted by the buy in bulk homicide they sell to keep distracting us from the fact they're certainly not selling anyone a better life, a future or any kind of support for their societies.
All we end up with is hate.
And that stems from the fact of politicians forcing us into wars where our two sides go into it and end up with people getting killed, of course we'll hate the other side, theyre killing us, killing people we know and we'll hold that kind of hatred to the grave. Probably passing it onto the next generation after us and theirs to their own.

This is the great, all time joke the people in power have with us with their sociopathic power games and every generation, we fall for the same old crap.
We dont get any better than the last generation.
We dont learn anything objective.
We add another corpse to the chip on the shoulder of the next generation and we seem incapable of breaking the cycle of government and religious endorsed homicide.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Nope. Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem.

it is if you fail to at least try and prove it!. you can accuse me of raping your pet goat and it'll be an ad hominem all day until you at least demonstrate once and for all i did, in fact, rape your goat.

quote:

It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

yeah, someone else needs to make sense out of this for me. i guess i'm too stupid and indoctrinated. that should at the very least prove i'm not arrogant.

I'd just like to say, everytime I see the name of this
thread I can't help but think it's so wrong on so many
levels.

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Pointing out your false accusations/hypocrisy/logical/ethical inconsistancy doesn't qualify as argumetative ad hominem. It's relevance to your arguement and lack of credibility demostrate weakness in your arguemnts. I don't really need to do that really as since it's so blatantly obvious in your posts. You're just too fucking stupid, indoctrinated, and arrogant to take notice of it.

I can say the same thing about you, you label the ENTIRE US
Military in every thread and sometimes say 'some of them'.
False labeling, it's stupid and arrogant. They're better
people than you will ever be sitting at home being an
armchair general...

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

settle down you damn kids!!! mesican trying to watch TV, ha ha ha ha