I h8 PETA

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Short time TA, Long time Guver, Good time giver.

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Originally posted by disko-kandi you've just given yourself the answer. that's exactly my point. ... b/c it's just an animal. who cares, right?

argh, well I would definitely care! I really don't understand how can anyone witness something like that or any kind of cruelty for that matter and not say or do anything! don't they feel at least a little bit responsible to bring justice on him?

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Originally posted by English Rachel I have a very simple answer to this... Humans have decision making mental capacity and animals do not (think of them as babies). Crimes against humans are usually blurred with anything that the victim may have done - you hear things (which DISGUST me) like, "She was raped because she dressed provocatively" etc. etc. Now, the reason people become very angry about crimes against animals is the victim is completely innocent. That is the reason it evokes slightly different emotions. I don't think anyone in this thread thinks that animals are more important than humans (except perhaps me ), they just recognize that those people who prey on them do so without any conceivable provocation.

Good point.

Also, in some way the evergoing argument comes up that we've been a bit more desensitized to violence against humans.

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew argh, well I would definitely care! I really don't understand how can anyone witness something like that or any kind of cruelty for that matter and not say or do anything! don't they feel at least a little bit responsible to bring justice [on him?]

who knows. be it for humans or for animals, i've been trying to figure out this mystery myself. the world is not fair. struggle, pain & misery have been around since the dawn of time. perhaps this is just the way it has to be ... for the stupid human to learn ... whatever that may be. animals on the other hand struggle and fight for survival but not out of malicious or sick-minded intent.

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life's too short~simply do!

I'm almost afraid to post this, for fear of flaming!...but I will anyway. This is not necessarily my stance, but it's something that was brought up in the ethics class I mentioned I took last semester. I thought it would be an interesting thing to post to generate discussion.

In my class we talked about the issue of animals vs. humans. For instance, why are humans considered superior to animals? Is it because we have the ability to change our environments? Or that we have the capacity for language? Does this make humans "better"? Who are we to say that we are better than animals? Animals and other living things have been around just as long, if not longer than humans.

One of the reasons this was brought up was due to animal rights. Should there be laws against animal violence? Or do they not really matter?

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Shut up and DANCE!!
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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I'm almost afraid to post this, for fear of flaming!...but I will anyway. This is not necessarily my stance, but it's something that was brought up in the ethics class I mentioned I took last semester. I thought it would be an interesting thing to post to generate discussion. In my class we talked about the issue of animals vs. humans. For instance, why are humans considered superior to animals? Is it because we have the ability to change our environments? Or that we have the capacity for language? Does this make humans "better"? Who are we to say that we are better than animals? Animals and other living things have been around just as long, if not longer than humans. One of the reasons this was brought up was due to animal rights. Should there be laws against animal violence? Or do they not really matter?

I see what you are saying.

Its not necessarily that we are better, I think its more to do with the fact that most species will take care of their own first before anything else.

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I'm almost afraid to post this, for fear of flaming!...but I will anyway. This is not necessarily my stance, but it's something that was brought up in the ethics class I mentioned I took last semester. I thought it would be an interesting thing to post to generate discussion. In my class we talked about the issue of animals vs. humans. For instance, why are humans considered superior to animals? Is it because we have the ability to change our environments? Or that we have the capacity for language? Does this make humans "better"? Who are we to say that we are better than animals? Animals and other living things have been around just as long, if not longer than humans. One of the reasons this was brought up was due to animal rights. Should there be laws against animal violence? Or do they not really matter?

You bring up some good questions. Personally, I'd say that if not for our ability to significantly alter our environment and fashion/use tools we'd be a pretty crappy animal. Subsequently, I believe it is exactly those abilities that have resulted in our position a top the order of animals. With regard to animal rights legislation, I think this is necessary. Building from Ghandi's thinking that societies must be judged on how they treat their most vulnerable then if we want to be a just society we need to treat our animals humanely (humanely being a somewhat fluid concept as many animals are considered property and kept only for a purpose, which may not be objectly humane).

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

I believe that life is life. Period.

Despite being a vegetarian, I don't think that you shouldn't eat animals at all but I think that farming practices are DISGUSTING. A life is a life and if you are intending to kill that animal, you should have given it a decent life and a death with the utmost dignity and minimal pain.

We, as humans, demonstrate on a daily basis how we fail to take care of our own, whether it be letting the door go on someone when you can clearly see they are struggling to carry bags (most trivial) or the sexual abuse or murder or verbal abuse of another human (most severe). I wish we did take more care of each other.

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Be the best person you can be. Always.

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict I see what you are saying. Its not necessarily that we are better, I think its more to do with the fact that most species will take care of their own first before anything else.

To further this...we talked about what responsibilities we have to protect other species? This is going a little off topic from the original post, but if someone wants to cut down a wooded area for Habitat for Humanity, or other subsidized housing...is that ethically right? Because what about the animals and other living things that will lose their homes and possibly die due to what the humans are doing?

Yes, we would be building homes to help people who need help - as you say, looking out for our own species. But why should we take away the habitats of the animals just b/c they don't have the ability to stand up to us humans?

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Shut up and DANCE!!
House moves my body, Trance owns my soul, Progressive drives me wild

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Originally posted by English Rachel We, as humans, demonstrate on a daily basis how we fail to take care of our own, whether it be letting the door go on someone when you can clearly see they are struggling to carry bags (most trivial) or the sexual abuse or murder or verbal abuse of another human (most severe). I wish we did take more care of each other.

+1

I used to be a bit of an idealist and used to really care. But then I quickly realized that in order to "survive" you really need to only care about yourself. This is a pretty sad concept but its just how it is.


On a side note about animals.
Think about this..I always wondered..

So we can kill cows, pigs, chickens, etc.. to eat. and its ok.
Now as soon as someone kills a cat, or a dog its cruelty.
Who says that a cats/dogs life is more important than that of a cow/pig/chicken?
Is it just the fact that in this society thats what we have grown up with or what?
Lisa did you talk about this in your class at all?

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Originally posted by English Rachel A life is a life and if you are intending to kill that animal, you should have given it a decent life and a death with the utmost dignity and minimal pain.

This point was brought up in my class as well. I am not a vegetarian, but I do agree with what you're saying Rachel. If we intend to kill chickens or cows for their meat, we should give them a decent life and death...not keep them cooped up in cages so small that they are sitting on each other and get no excercise.

___________________
Shut up and DANCE!!
House moves my body, Trance owns my soul, Progressive drives me wild

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* To further this...we talked about what responsibilities we have to protect other species? This is going a little off topic from the original post, but if someone wants to cut down a wooded area for Habitat for Humanity, or other subsidized housing...is that ethically right? Because what about the animals and other living things that will lose their homes and possibly die due to what the humans are doing? Yes, we would be building homes to help people who need help - as you say, looking out for our own species. But why should we take away the habitats of the animals just b/c they don't have the ability to stand up to us humans?

Well with this point I totally agree.