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Originally posted by Magnetonium Since you dont like encyclopedias, I also obtain a massive load of my information and knowledge from books, I have a collection: Al Gore - Earth In The Balance Thom Hartmann - Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight Fragile Earth - Views of a Changing World A Brief History of Globallization COLLAPSE: How societies chose to fall or succeed Guns, Germs and Steel Weather Makers These are main books on this environmental stuff. But I bet since you dont believe encyclopedia, you wont find these credible either.

First, wikipedia is NOT an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia get ALL they're content screened by experts. Wikipedia on the other hand only gets some content screened by experts for errors. Wikipedia also tends to lack correct citations so that one can trace down the facts. Now i cant believe that after reading 'Collapse' you can still make those silly arguments about natives, and about global warming being a myth. I also find inconsistent with your view on global warming the fact that you own an al gore book when al gore is one of the preeminent proponents of human caused global warming. Now, if yo really care to do some research, and or sway any of use with your arguments, maybe try citing from those books you own or finding a link to more reliable information. Sadly the information you give us from those books, if any, is influenced by your interpretation, so unless you give us direct quotations it means null. I've also read collapse and guns, germs and steel, and i've seen the al gore documentary and i sincerely do not understand how you can deny global warming being man made after being exposed to the information in those books.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX First, wikipedia is NOT an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia get ALL they're content screened by experts. Wikipedia on the other hand only gets some content screened by experts for errors. Wikipedia also tends to lack correct citations so that one can trace down the facts. Now i cant believe that after reading 'Collapse' you can still make those silly arguments about natives, and about global warming being a myth. I also find inconsistent with your view on global warming the fact that you own an al gore book when al gore is one of the preeminent proponents of human caused global warming. Now, if yo really care to do some research, and or sway any of use with your arguments, maybe try citing from those books you own or finding a link to more reliable information. Sadly the information you give us from those books, if any, is influenced by your interpretation, so unless you give us direct quotations it means null. I've also read collapse and guns, germs and steel, and i've seen the al gore documentary and i sincerely do not understand how you can deny global warming being man made after being exposed to the information in those books.

Two reasons: historic records and ice core samples. Any expert will either use these facts to prove the exagerration of global warming, or, in the case of your so-called experts, they'll just mumble and shift away from the point.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Since you dont like encyclopedias, I also obtain a massive load of my information and knowledge from books, I have a collection: Al Gore - Earth In The Balance

Al Gore-the biggest fucking hypocrite. Imagine how many fucking trees had to be cut down for printing his book-and the oil it took to transport his book from nation to nation. Like I'll every believe what a fucking drunk/hypocrite ever has to say.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Thanks, Shakka. That video is AWESOME (and its not sarcasm). I have outmost respect for Bushmen. Even the video says: Bushmen are so content, no crimes, no laws, no police, no judges, no rulers, ...

No problem--that movie is a classic! Sure I respect them, but does that honestly make their way of life better than mine? I have accepted some societal "evils" in exchange for some near-galactic improvements in living standard to have them. I mean that is an obvious trade-off to begin with. Peaceful and/or non-agressive as it is, are you fucking kidding me? That was for a family of 20-30 bushmen. Now propose a serious and sincere logistical strategy that will accomplish Bushman killing ritual standards on all farms, factories, fisheries, etc., or any other major food industry on a truly national scale. Living like a bushman is akin to denying evolution. They represent the past...the waaay past.

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They have no sense of ownership at all. Nothing can be owned. They use mostly wood and bone, no concrete.

Yeah, I have a problem with that.

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I was so pissed off, and still am when Botswana government forced these people off their land, fucking bastards. Most of them have been forced to move into cities, learn languages, school, force against their will.

Yeah, I guess it sucks for them. One of them oughta become a lawyer and sue the government.

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BTW, awesome disco music is playing!!!!!

hehe. I didn't notice.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Al Gore-the biggest fucking hypocrite. Imagine how many fucking trees had to be cut down for printing his book-and the oil it took to transport his book from nation to nation. Like I'll every believe what a fucking drunk/hypocrite ever has to say.

Not everyone can afford to buy a computer, internet and then bother to read it from a computer screen. There are at least 4 billion people who dont have access to internet, or a computer, or to read the book online. Plus, at least this is a USEFUL method of trees. Much better than using trees for building a house, when in short time that wood would degrade so much you'll have to cut more trees. Book is priceless, powerful knowledge, with proper care can last centuries. Its a small price enough to pay to learn that cutting down trees is bad.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Or then lets not publish any books, lets not build homes.

Lets rent a horse and transport banned-hemp-paper books across the oceans, from country to country! By the time the book reaches Japan, Amazon rainforests will be gone probably!


You see, there are alternative methods for paper, like hemp. But hemp is banned in many countries.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

u didn't mention the oil it takes and the coal and the manpower and the concreate for the roads...etc etc.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid u didn't mention the oil it takes and the coal and the manpower and the concreate for the roads...etc etc.

If we get rid of all these and more, it wont be civilization then, or will it? It cant change overnight. There will be people against this, many ordinary people will refuse to give up their ordinary lifestyles to protect the environment. I heard enough people cheering on the environmental movement, but at the same time they will refuse to give up damaging to the environment lifestyles, and the things that cause damage to the environment. Thats why this environmental protection thing is just not feasible. People will reject it. People will continually believe everything's OK, little damage control is possible, that Earth can rebuild, etc.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Shakka No problem--that movie is a classic! Sure I respect them, but does that honestly make their way of life better than mine? I have accepted some societal "evils" in exchange for some near-galactic improvements in living standard to have them. I mean that is an obvious trade-off to begin with. Peaceful and/or non-agressive as it is, are you fucking kidding me? That was for a family of 20-30 bushmen. Now propose a serious and sincere logistical strategy that will accomplish Bushman killing ritual standards on all farms, factories, fisheries, etc., or any other major food industry on a truly national scale. Living like a bushman is akin to denying evolution. They represent the past...the waaay past. Yeah, I have a problem with that. Yeah, I guess it sucks for them. One of them oughta become a lawyer and sue the government. hehe. I didn't notice.

The thing is - surely, Bushmen might have "primitive" lifestyles according to us. Yet they have not done the damage that we did to our planet. As least token of appreciation and respect, we should let them live in peace on their own lands (its not like anyone else can live on those dry lands for half a year). I have outmost respect for them because of their simple, effective lifestyle, stress-free living, finding food in dry semi-desert environment, family structure. Its not fair to compare them to us anyhow. But it would be a great honour for me to spend a week with some native tribes experiencing their life, be it in Amazon, Kalahari, or wherever else. It would be an enlightening experience ;-)

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Another important thing to add - right now we might think we have a better, more efficient, advanced lifestyle and society. Bushmen and natives think theirs is better. Lets not force our ways was on them, let them live peacefully, and only time will tell which way will ultimately outlast the other one ;-) Cause I have a feeling that in the case of Bushmen, which lived content and efficient for over 20,000 years, will continue to do so, while we we undergo severe calamities that will shake up our lifestyles and we will settle for less ;-) all that spports, tv, media junk will have to discarded because survival will be the primary goal. And THEN we will look at them and try to learn the basic skills of survival. Quite frankly, if the lights went out tomorrow, we wouldnt be able to survive for long in the wild because we dont have any skills, other than skills at watching TV, playing cards and spinning records. And Kalahari Indians are in adequate numbers enough to be able to support themselves. While we are living in risky times, sucking out the resources, giving nothing useful to Earth in return but garbage.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Two reasons: historic records and ice core samples. Any expert will either use these facts to prove the exagerration of global warming, or, in the case of your so-called experts, they'll just mumble and shift away from the point.

OK, hit me with them experts. Show me the interpretation of the nice pictures you have shown us by those so called experts. I don't have time right now, but ill show you real research papers from real experts rebutting your 'opinion'. So far you have shown us no source from an expert or a respected journal in the field, or even a widely acclaimed book. So please stop talking like your point of view is the end all of all arguments, you haven't shown one bit of credible data.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome