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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Here we go with this bullshit again.

anyone who disagrees with you is bullshit then?

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If Iran just wants to make some power, then they shouldn't be so reclusive.

I think we should support the people of Iran and help them reform their government. Admidinijad is facing growing internal opposition.

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Oil -- will probably trade from $62 to $65 this week depending how hot things get with Iran. Iran & the UN Watch: Iran becomes even less cooperative. If you’re splitting the atom for power (electricity) and not POWER (glass parking lots), then I’d think you be happy to show off your shiny new facilities. But having the Russians pull out and additional U.N. sanctions piled on is not the way to go if you just want to make kilowatts.

Source

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Last edited by Krypton on Mar-26-2007 at 15:17

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan If it was Iranian marines we would be allow them to speak to their consulate, we would contain them on a military base and not take them to London to be paraded, because they don't seem to be going to Tehran to talk to any embassy officials. This situation could be solved and any misunderstandings corrected, if they allowed the British consulate to talk the naval personal involved.

Just to play devils advocate... under the new anti-terror laws here you or I could be detained for is it 30 days?... with no charge. I doubt we'd be able to talk to our consulate we'd only get a lawyer

Just something that popped into my head. But I still recon the Iranians committed a snatch here really.

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by Dervish Just to play devils advocate... under the new anti-terror laws here you or I could be detained for is it 30 days?... with no charge. I doubt we'd be able to talk to our consulate we'd only get a lawyer

Very good point.

I'm guessing the Patriot Act in the US could lead to a similar situation.

Hell, just crossing the border between Canada and the US, you can get locked up and questionned at customs pretty easily, going both ways across it too.

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Originally posted by Dervish Just to play devils advocate... under the new anti-terror laws here you or I could be detained for is it 30 days?... with no charge. I doubt we'd be able to talk to our consulate we'd only get a lawyer Just something that popped into my head. But I still recon the Iranians committed a snatch here really.

Your correct it's 30 days. What I find strange is yet there is no charges brought on the Royal Navy personel. If they were in Iranian water surely a warning would be suffice instead of snatching them?

It's hard to compare terrorism and normal warfare stuff like border disputes etc. If it was an SAS or SBS team with C4 charges, building plans to government buildings etc in Iranian waters then yes it's an open act of aggression, this was just a normal patrol.

A handful of marines and sailors bording a boat holding a cargo of cars is hardly an offensive action.

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But we could get pulled in for just being "suspected". I'm just trying to look at it another way really. I agree that it's a crazy (I suppose) thing to do from their end.

But can we throw stones when if one of their citizens was here went to the wrong mosque talked to the wrong types and wham he could be locked up for 30 days with no trial?

The border could be contested maybe in their minds our guys were in their water?

We'll get them back thats for sure (edit: the troops), but they might (with their own nationalists) score a few points and solidify a few ultra-right wing positions (what the probable intent is).

End of the day I don't think the US and UK can afford to goto war again without UN backing. And I really doubt they would get it under pretty much any circumstances after Iraq.... so maybe the Iranians just know they are in a strong position and can chance their hand (I mean the state of the African oil producing nations just now...)?

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

Last edited by Dervish on Mar-26-2007 at 21:59

So does Iran have their own Gitmo?

Dun Dun Duuuuunnnnn....

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Dervish But can we throw stones when if one of their citizens was here went to the wrong mosque talked to the wrong types and wham he could be locked up for 30 days with no trial?

We're not uncivilised barbarians though like them. Look how lenient the UK was towards Hamaza and co at the Finsbury Park mosque, preaching hate against British people well before Iraq yet he claimed asylum here? It really fucking annoys me.

The UK is soft, it has the most over politicially correct system by far and the liberal ethnic minority infested media backs this up. Not meaning to stray off topic but look at all the inquest made into Stephen Lawerence etc, it's sad that poor lad died and the ignorance display by met but how much investigation went into that case?

If that very situation was vice versa and me or you ended up in the morgue. I don't think system would care one bit, they'd put it down to a street robbery gone wrong.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan We're not uncivilised barbarians though like them. Look how lenient the UK was towards Hamaza and co at the Finsbury Park mosque, preaching hate against British people well before Iraq yet he claimed asylum here? It really fucking annoys me.

Oh my, uncivilized barbarians? I thought we were past this childish conceptions. Are you by any chance suggesting that these people are inherently evil and incapable of change? Are they born as uncivilized barbarians? Maybe if you were born there and not in a nice comfortable suburb of the UK where you can grow without worrying about famine, repression or death you would be able to better understand these uncivilized barbarians.

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The UK is soft, it has the most over politicially correct system by far and the liberal ethnic minority infested media backs this up. Not meaning to stray off topic but look at all the inquest made into Stephen Lawerence etc, it's sad that poor lad died and the ignorance display by met but how much investigation went into that case? If that very situation was vice versa and me or you ended up in the morgue. I don't think system would care one bit, they'd put it down to a street robbery gone wrong.

Well, I guess the UK can go back to being uncivilized barbarians. That way they won't lose face and your english pride won't be hurt. Everyone knows pride is more important than lives! Don't negotiate, it makes us look weak! Oh no! There goes my manliness!

Seriously, minorities have to be loud and obnoxious and constantly fight for their rights. Why? 'Cuz the majority will quickly forget they exist if not. I'm not familiar with the stephen lawerence case, but whatever your point agression of any kind will only proliferate agression, specially in this day and age.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r So does Iran have their own Gitmo? Dun Dun Duuuuunnnnn....

US has a monopoly on that silly.

And for the rest of you lot that can't evaluate things from other people's point of view (i.e. the Iranians), maybe you should go back to pre-school with the rest of the human population that still hasnt develop the ability to understand that other people also have thoughts and interpretations of situations. Maybe the kids in preschool might be able to help you grapple with the concept.

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Poetry>Byron//Blog>TheMean

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Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

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Originally posted by venomX Oh my, uncivilized barbarians? I thought we were past this childish conceptions. Are you by any chance suggesting that these people are inherently evil and incapable of change? Are they born as uncivilized barbarians? Maybe if you were born there and not in a nice comfortable suburb of the UK where you can grow without worrying about famine, repression or death you would be able to better understand these uncivilized barbarians.

No their not born uncivilized barbarians. Some have bee exposed to situations your average person will never see or some are from an upper class family then end up letting extreme brands of religion take over their life. Incapable of change difficult one I think when people are set on a certain lifestyle they'll never change. Inherently evil no I'm not that racist.

I'm not from a nice and comfortable suburb of the UK far from it. I'm from a working class background and I'm from a multi cultural area believe it or not.

Hamza though is an uncivilized barbarian he gets what he deserves, I'd send him back to the Egypt or better still the Yeman where he's wanted. since his Marriage to a Britain muslim turned out being a complete farce, he don't have a leg to stand on and why should my taxes have to go on him sitting in a British prison?

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Well, I guess the UK can go back to being uncivilized barbarians. That way they won't lose face and your english pride won't be hurt. Everyone knows pride is more important than lives! Don't negotiate, it makes us look weak! Oh no! There goes my manliness! Seriously, minorities have to be loud and obnoxious and constantly fight for their rights. Why? 'Cuz the majority will quickly forget they exist if not. I'm not familiar with the stephen lawerence case, but whatever your point agression of any kind will only proliferate agression, specially in this day and age.

The UK's fine apart from following Bush into Iraq we're alright, we have a right to be proud of our country and her history even though some of it was very violent and brutal. I agree in a diplomatic solution to every disagreement, there is no need let pride get the better of you. If you want a fine case of taking pride too seriously look at the football war 1969 between El Salvador and Honduras.

Their a bit too loud sometimes. Stephen Lawerence was a black teenager who got stabbed to death by five white men back in the early 90's. It was a shocking and unprovaked attack and the blunders made by the Met lead to no one being imprisioned for the crime. It was very sad as his parents never saw justice. Yet it got so much media coverage tons in fact I mean tons. A white lad up in Glasgow called Kriss Donald got stabbed and burnt alive by a group of Asians, yet it reached 6 page news and get mentioned after the major headlines on the news.

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Why is the UK pissed that video of the detained sailors and marines was shown on TV? They're concerned this was "coerced". Now, while the one girl's statement was obviously written by the Iranians, they were clean, being fed, apparently not abused, and also being held together in their own uniforms (apart from her headscarf).

I find it odd that they're pissed, yet enemy combatants get held in Gitmo for years, without trial, charge, access by their consular officials...hell, they even get flown around the world on an unmarked plane while they get beaten! Also, how well has the intel resulting from US coercion worked for them?

The hypocracy on both sides of this situation is absurd.

you know who we need to save the day?

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this is it.