quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 So there is no need to have the debate about what trance is, cause these are all well established as trance, even if they don't all trip you out and put you into one.

Yeah. When you boil down to it, there's really three kinds of trance:

Hypnotic dance music
Psychedelic dance music
Euphoric dance music

And vocals can be used in any of these if it serves the purpose of those adjectives. When the vocals no longer do though, it starts to take on elements of euro dance.

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quote:

Originally posted by CrazedOut I've noticed a lot more vocal songs popping up, and I don't mind, I love vocals (male or female) and my current favorite happens to be... DJ Tiesto - Everything ft. Jes

+10000000 beautiful track..

i'm actually more into vocal trance that trance o.o

my favourites

Andain - Beautiful Things

Elsa Hill - No Need To Come Back

DJ Tiesto ft Jes - Everything

Grayarea Ft Erik Shepard - Gravity

Way Out West - Mindcircus

Luminary - Amsterdam

Luminary - My world

BT - The Force Of Gravity

James Holden - Nothing

Way Out West - Don't Forget Me (Guy Ehmetores mix)

Late Night Alumni - Empty Streets

Jes - Like A Waterfall

Qakesound - Elektro

Electro Pompt - Beside Me (Gothek Remix)

In all seriousness, vocal trance probably got it's start with Tilt - Invisible. Before this track (pre-1998), it was rare for trance to have any vocals at all, much less any singing (sampled voices/chants notwithstanding). It neither needed nor required them to put the listener in a trance (its modus operandi).

Sure, vocal trance existed in some unfocused incarnation before this track, but this is what put it on the map as a commercial juggernaught. But let's step back for a second.

In the mid-late 90s a whole generation of artists wanted to combine the flighty, emotional piano chords of Dream Trance with the pop-song structure of eurodance. That's what epic trance essentially is (or was, rather): dream trance + eurodance. The most popular track of this era? For an Angel.

Tilt - Invisible was the first commercial epic trance smash that realized if you put meaningless lyrics and an angelic, high-strung, thin, whispy voice over top of it, you can convince the suits that its pop music and they'll play it on the radio. Vocal trance was born--as nothing more than late 90s epic trance with singing. Eventually as the years went on, since the commercial 'song' release was always given more press than the instrumental 'track' original, producers stopped making epic trance anymore.

There really is no such thing, technically, as "vocal trance", when nothing has been done to the production of the music at all. Push - Save Me is the exact same song as Sunscreem vs Push - Save me, the only difference is the latter has some silly tart singing over top of it. Vocal trance was just a marketing gimmick. It was a cheap, aimless and uncreative ploy to get an underground floor stomper onto mainstream radio if given the verse-bridge-chorus top40 song structure format. In most cases, vocal trance tunes at the time were an afterthought: they were made ONLY after the original track made it big, in an attempt to squeeze more money out of it by re-issuing it with lyrics.

Furthermore, there seems to be a strong stigma against Ian van Dahl, Fragma, Alice Deejay and Lasgo--artists enormously successful for their vocal trance work yet expelled from the trance pantheon for being too commercial. How ironic, when that was vocal trance's purpose in the first place: to be a corporate radio schill, selling feather-like, milquetoast, fake trance pap to the masses for easy digestion.

Oceanlab, Motorcycle and DJ Sammy all use the same presets, guys. So knock it off with your pretentious elitism. You listen to sugary, sacharine schmaltz. Stop taking it so seriously.

Spirit5, you don't listen to trance and you never have, you're just in extreme denial coming to grips with the sad revelation that you're a wanton celebrator of ridiculously tepid crap.

A label on a CD doesn't make your music what it is, no matter how much you want to bullshit yourself into believing it so.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur The most popular track of this era? For an Angel.

In your little neck of the woods, perhaps.

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i like Above and Beyonds vocal tracks

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J In your little neck of the woods, perhaps.

Go ahead, ask this forum.

quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur In all seriousness, vocal trance probably got it's start with Tilt - Invisible. Before this track (pre-1998), it was rare for trance to have any vocals at all, much less any singing (sampled voices/chants notwithstanding). It neither needed nor required them to put the listener in a trance (its modus operandi). Sure, vocal trance existed in some unfocused incarnation before this track, but this is what put it on the map as a commercial juggernaught. But let's step back for a second. In the mid-late 90s a whole generation of artists wanted to combine the flighty, emotional piano chords of Dream Trance with the pop-song structure of eurodance. That's what epic trance essentially is (or was, rather): dream trance + eurodance. The most popular track of this era? For an Angel. Tilt - Invisible was the first commercial epic trance smash that realized if you put meaningless lyrics and an angelic, high-strung, thin, whispy voice over top of it, you can convince the suits that its pop music and they'll play it on the radio. Vocal trance was born--as nothing more than late 90s epic trance with singing. Eventually as the years went on, since the commercial 'song' release was always given more press than the instrumental 'track' original, producers stopped making epic trance anymore. There really is no such thing, technically, as "vocal trance", when nothing has been done to the production of the music at all. Push - Save Me is the exact same song as Sunscreem vs Push - Save me, the only difference is the latter has some silly tart singing over top of it. Vocal trance was just a marketing gimmick. It was a cheap, aimless and uncreative ploy to get an underground floor stomper onto mainstream radio if given the verse-bridge-chorus top40 song structure format. In most cases, vocal trance tunes at the time were an afterthought: they were made ONLY after the original track made it big, in an attempt to squeeze more money out of it by re-issuing it with lyrics. Furthermore, there seems to be a strong stigma against Ian van Dahl, Fragma, Alice Deejay and Lasgo--artists enormously successful for their vocal trance work yet expelled from the trance pantheon for being too commercial. How ironic, when that was vocal trance's purpose in the first place: to be a corporate radio schill, selling feather-like, milquetoast, fake trance pap to the masses for easy digestion. Oceanlab, Motorcycle and DJ Sammy all use the same presets, guys. So knock it off with your pretentious elitism. You listen to sugary, sacharine schmaltz. Stop taking it so seriously.

What about Grace - Not Over Yet? I've always considored it to be the first commercial trance track.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ishkur Spirit5, you don't listen to trance and you never have, you're just in extreme denial coming to grips with the sad revelation that you're a wanton celebrator of ridiculously tepid crap. A label on a CD doesn't make your music what it is, no matter how much you want to bullshit yourself into believing it so.

So basically, we are all wrong.. all DJs, producers, labels, fans and websites are wrong.. we dont listen to trance. Thats pretty sad, maybe we should give this whole site another name as well.

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle So basically, we are all wrong.. all DJs, producers, labels, fans and websites are wrong.. we dont listen to trance. Thats pretty sad, maybe we should give this whole site another name as well.

Hehe. Well, there are often threads bitching about the lack of trance talk in the Music Discussion, claiming the site should be renamed because of this.

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quote:

Originally posted by Subtle So basically, we are all wrong.. all DJs, producers, labels, fans and websites are wrong.. we dont listen to trance. Thats pretty sad, maybe we should give this whole site another name as well.

Yeah that's is weird. Ishkur always makes it out to be like the music I like or we like, is not trance or "true" trance or is utter shit, when it's what 80% or more of people on here listened to or listen to who are not into psy or goa or other music other than trance. The ones who were really into the old 90s style are the minority, AND if you only focused on them, then your missing a lot of the tracks that are or will be considered classics like BT's "Flaming June" and "Mercury & Solace", PvD's "For An Angel" and "Another Way", The Quest's "C-Sharp", Free Radical's "Surreal", Salt Tank's "Eugina" & "Dimension", Solar Stone's "Seven Cities" & "Solarcoaster" and many others. If trance was only what Ishkur and a few other people on here...think it is..in their definition, then about 70% of well established trance artists and DJs would not be considered "trance".

I can understand the argument against using the term trance on CDs that are truly not all trance, like those "Ultra Trance" CDs, but to well estbalished artists, producers and DJs who we all know as trance, and as nothing else..and not to consider them trance (as the majority of people do consider them) then that's just weird...being overly picky (oh it's only trance if it's got this hypnotic groove effect going on). It's like saying it's only rock if it's got a guitar and drums and singing or should only sound like it did in the 50s when it began. If that was the only true rock music, then that would mean over 50 years of rock music with many different artists and sub-genres would not really be rock. There's lots of rock that uses other instruments and has other sounds other than the typical electric guitar, bass, drummer and singer....Pink Floyd being an example of one that definitely broke the rock convetions.

I really think this forum should be renamed, people bitch and moan about trance and those who do talk about trance...always get people who come in just to start stuff. I've just always found it funny that talking about trance on a forum with trance in it's title yet people bashing those who do talk about it, doesn't make sense. It's kind of like having a movie forum and not talking about movies...not saying this forum esp this MD board, has to talk about trance all the time, just weird that it seems more people don't like trance (it seems) than those who do (well the more vocal ones are usually those who don't like it anymore or as much, i've grown out of a lot of it, but I still like it and talk about it). There's no rule if you've grown out of something you can't ever talk about it anymore or still appreciate it, listen to it from time to time.

Last edited by Spirit5 on Mar-27-2007 at 18:29

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Hehe. Well, there are often threads bitching about the lack of trance talk in the Music Discussion, claiming the site should be renamed because of this.

It should if trance is only those artists who were around from about 89 or 90 till 96 or is only psy or goa trance. Any of those in the progressive and epic catagories wouldn't be trance, an overwhelming majority of them who have made the sound what it is. Sure they kinda broke away from the really repetitive, hypnotic and acidiy sound of some of the earlier stuff, but they are what made the style known. Not every single trance track I like or other people like, or one by the bigger names, is only with a huge long extended breakdown ala Rank 1 "Airwave".

Sure there's those out there, but I don't hear that on every single track even the big guys like Armin van Buuren, Paul van Dyk and Ferry Corsten play or have produced. "Blue Fear" one of Armin's classics, doesn't have a 3 minute breakdown and it is known as a trance classic. Lots of people listen to that and who are into it think "trance". Tiesto's "Magik" series was basically all trance, and not every track was with a 3 minute breakdowns that people say have "killed trance". Even tracks like Gaia "4 Elements" produced by Armin van Buuren does not have a long 3 minute breakdown. It pretty much flows throughout with some minor tension and release. Some little breakdowns are so common to almost every genre of music, some type of climax or tension and release.