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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I believe the difference here is that the symphony is actually generating the notes that the audience hears whereas the DJ is simply putting pre-recorded music stored on one media or another into a machine that transferes the recorded data into audiable music. In the former the people are required in order to make the music.

i just think that if garbage cans can be condidered musical instruments (a la Stomp), then so can turntables. i mean there are many things that you are adjusting while DJing, it's not just pressing play and hoping things line up. Playing with the sound on a vinyl/CD is like playing an instrument.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard I believe the difference here is that the symphony is actually generating the notes that the audience hears whereas the DJ is simply putting pre-recorded music stored on one media or another into a machine that transferes the recorded data into audiable music. In the former the people are required in order to make the music.

Just because electronic form eliminates the need for humans to huff and puff to manipulate sound, that does not change the amount of creative input a DJ requires to manipulate.

A DJ still dictates what sort of sound is to be played using cds or mixer, like how a instrument is played to dictate what sort of sound is to be made.

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess i just think that if garbage cans can be condidered musical instruments (a la Stomp), then so can turntables. i mean there are many things that you are adjusting while DJing, it's not just pressing play and hoping things line up. Playing with the sound on a vinyl/CD is like playing an instrument.

Don't get me wrong... I respect the talents of DJs (god knows I can't do it so I have to tip my hat) but there is a significant difference between manipulating a pre-recorded sound and actually creating that sound.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by EvilTree Just because electronic form eliminates the need for humans to huff and puff to manipulate sound, that does not change the amount of creative input a DJ requires to manipulate. A DJ still dictates what sort of sound is to be played using cds or mixer, like how a instrument is played to dictate what sort of sound is to be made.

The difference is in creating vs. manipulating. Musicians create the sound, without them there is no sound. Creative input is not what makes a musician, the act of creating music makes one a musician. Is a DJ an artist... sure, I'll buy that, but a musician... no.

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Originally posted by RickyM you're just a shit version of Moral Hazard. At least he knows what he's talking about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol, i love it when moral feels the need to lay the smack down

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The difference is in creating vs. manipulating. Musicians create the sound, without them there is no sound. Creative input is not what makes a musician, the act of creating music makes one a musician. Is a DJ an artist... sure, I'll buy that, but a musician... no.

So if I make farting noise with my armpit, it's music if I make successive farting noises with varying level of loudness and duration? (Heck, many percussion instruments share same principles)

Well, in my music class in high school, I was taught that music was human organization of sound. Any sound. No matter what form.
Musician is the human person who is organizing the sound.

*shrug*

I fail to see what is difference between making sound through an instrument and making sound through a cd player/mixer/Live PA box.

Unless you're using only your human body, you are still required some sort of tool to make that sound. I see a DJ's gear as electronic form of instruments

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

I have my ARCT level of classical training as a concert trumpet player.

I think we can all agree that that considers me a musician based on the previous conversation and responses that have been generated.

That said, I find DJing far more difficult and challenging than anything I have ever attempted on the trumpet (which you all have agreed and established is a viable musical instrument).

I think one of the most important parts of this conversation was when someone brought up the term of a "modern musician". Musicians constantly evolve, as does the music, as does the means of performing the content. Regardless, music was created for enjoyment and for the public (as an art-form: art is defined as "the products of human creativity").

As a musical DJ there are so many things that put you into the form of a musician. Sure you may be playing someone else's music, but since I was in grade 6 learning the trumpet I also have been playing someone else's music. When playing the trumpet I had to concentrate on the flow of my air-stream, proper finger technique for effective valve control, tongue control for proper note articulation, paying attention to my conductor and the rest of the band/orchestra/ensemble to make sure everything flowed together, and most likely a bunch of sub-conscious things I learned over the years that I just did fluently without thinking about it.

As a DJ I am responsible for choosing the next tracks to play, making sure they will match harmonically and with the correct key match, making sure the crowd is reading and enjoying the tracks properly, EQing the tracks both for live effects and for mixing purposes, beatmatching, manipulation of the track, speeding it up/slowing it down, performing crowd interaction, and again things I'm sure I do sub-consciously just by having a good time.

Does it make me any less of a musician because I'm a performing an art-form of playing music through technology and not blowing through a stainless steel mouthpiece? I think not.

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Originally posted by Chris Allen I have my ARCT level of classical training as a concert trumpet player. I think we can all agree that that considers me a musician based on the previous conversation and responses that have been generated. That said, I find DJing far more difficult and challenging than anything I have ever attempted on the trumpet (which you all have agreed and established is a viable musical instrument). I think one of the most important parts of this conversation was when someone brought up the term of a "modern musician". Musicians constantly evolve, as does the music, as does the means of performing the content. Regardless, music was created for enjoyment and for the public (as an art-form: art is defined as "the products of human creativity"). As a musical DJ there are so many things that put you into the form of a musician. Sure you may be playing someone else's music, but since I was in grade 6 learning the trumpet I also have been playing someone else's music. When playing the trumpet I had to concentrate on the flow of my air-stream, proper finger technique for effective valve control, tongue control for proper note articulation, paying attention to my conductor and the rest of the band/orchestra/ensemble to make sure everything flowed together, and most likely a bunch of sub-conscious things I learned over the years that I just did fluently without thinking about it. As a DJ I am responsible for choosing the next tracks to play, making sure they will match harmonically and with the correct key match, making sure the crowd is reading and enjoying the tracks properly, EQing the tracks both for live effects and for mixing purposes, beatmatching, manipulation of the track, speeding it up/slowing it down, performing crowd interaction, and again things I'm sure I do sub-consciously just by having a good time. Does it make me any less of a musician because I'm a performing an art-form of playing music through technology and not blowing through a stainless steel mouthpiece? I think not.

chewed up and spit out.

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DJs are Entertainers and not musicians....nowadays more then ever. Are they artists? Yes. Are they talented? Yes.

Producers are musicians...electronic musicians but musicians none the less.

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6 results for: musician Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source mu·si·cian /myuˈzɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[myoo-zish-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a person who makes music a profession, esp. as a performer of music. 2. any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [Origin: 1350–1400; ME musicien < MF. See music, -ian] —Related forms mu·si·cian·ly, adjective Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006. American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source mu·si·cian (myōō-zĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key n. One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music. [Middle English musicien, from Old French, from Latin mūsica, music; see music.] mu·si'cian·ly adj., mu·si'cian·ship' n. (Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. Online Etymology Dictionary - Cite This Source musician c.1374, "one skilled in music," from music (q.v.). Sense of "professional musical performer" first recorded c.1450. Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2001 Douglas Harper WordNet - Cite This Source musician noun 1. someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession) 2. artist who composes or conducts music as a profession WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University. Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source musician1 [mjuˈziʃən] noun a person who is skilled in music Example: The conductor of this orchestra is a fine musician. Arabic: موسيقي، موسيقار.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

Why post the definitions if they detract from your argument, not add to it?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Why post the definitions if they detract from your argument, not add to it?

and how does it detract from my argument? I'm assuming you mean "a person who makes music a profession". If that is the case, a VJ on Much Music is a musician.

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Scott has been introduced to the rave scene, and Ecstasy, by Craig. The two of them go out on the weekends, with some of Craigs friends, and stay up all night, dancing in a drug-fueled trance.

Last edited by Moral Hazard on Apr-26-2011 at 07:48

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced and how does it detract from my argument? I'm assuming you mean "a person who makes music a profession".

As does

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any person, whether professional or not, skilled in music.

and

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One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.

and

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"one skilled in music," from music

and

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1. someone who plays a musical instrument (as a profession)

and

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2. artist who composes or conducts music as a profession

and

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a person who is skilled in music

In case you still don't get it, all of those apply to DJs.

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