Russia blames US in missile row (page 5)

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HardTranceProd
Supreme tranceaddict

Registered: Jun 2004
Location: Washington DC

quote:
Originally posted by MisterOpus1
I haven't kept up too much on this topic, but from what appears to have come out of the meeting yesterday, Putin apparently outflanked the shit out of Bush:

I think Putin did more than de-escalate the tensions - Putin outmaneuvered the White House, BAD. Don't get me wrong, the guy's no saint, and he's got a lovely laundry list of objectionable actions over the years. But this move clearly puts Bush's in a situation where he will either have to abandon his plan altogether or explicitly admit that his goal was not what he originally stated (defending against the nonexistent missile threat from Iran).

That's exactly right.

In fact:

quote:

Calling Washington's Bluff

Russian diplomacy can be rough, and for some of its neighbours, it can be a contradiction in terms. But in an age where the international agenda has been set by the occupant of the White House and a relatively small clique of advisers around him, it is refreshing to see multilateralism rear its head again, even if it is in the heavily guarded confines of the G8 summit.

It is clear that Vladimir Putin's proposal to conscript a Russian-controlled radar station in Azerbaijan for the purpose of George Bush's missile defence shield, wrongfooted the US delegation. Stephen Hadley, the US national security adviser had to admit that it was a "bold proposal". It is more than that. It calls Washington's bluff about which rogue state - Iran or Russia - the missile defence system is really pointed at. It separates America's domestic defence needs from the issue of deploying frontline systems in eastern Europe, which is a neuralgic one not only for Moscow, but for public opinion in Poland and the Czech Republic. It takes Mr Bush's offer of "participation" in the missile defence shield and returns it in kind.

Russia is offering to "integrate" one of the most powerful radars in the world, the Qabala station in the north of Azerbaijan, into the US system. Of the two elements of the proposed missile defence system, Russian experts were always more concerned about the radar station in the Czech Republic than they were about the missiles in Poland. The missiles have no warheads and are designed to destroy the rogue state's missile by kinetic impact. If it works, and it is not certain that it does, the idea is to hit a bullet with a bullet. The radar that detects the launch of the enemy missile and directs the counter missile to its target is known as an "attack" radar and has a range long enough to cover Russia as well as Iran. Hence the Russians' reluctance to accept Washington's assurances that the system is not aimed at them.

Nato secretary-general Jaap de Hoop Sheffer said today that Qabala was too close to Iran to be of any use, and the Pentagon is probably going to take the same view. But Mr Putin's diplomatic counter-strike could well widen the gap between Europe and America on what Europeans have always treated more sceptically as a pet neo-conservative project. The threat to re-direct Russian missiles to European targets still exists and, for Europe, doubts must grow about the political and military cost of putting the so-called shield in place if no agreement is achieved with Russia.

Washington left the ABM (Anti-Ballistic Missile) Treaty, which had been in force for 30 years, so that it could develop its missile defence system. It argued that the ABM Treaty was outdated. It was imperfect but it was a treaty and, as such, part of a tissue of agreements which now threatens to unravel. In the rapidly materialising reality of a "cold peace", Moscow has signalled its unhappiness with two treaties which restrict the number and deployment of intermediate nuclear missiles and conventional weapons.

It is in no-one's interests, certainly not Poland's, that these treaties go the way of all flesh. Russia's argument - whether it is right or not - that the missile defence shield will destroy the strategic balance of forces in Europe could thus become a self-fulfilling prophecy. We may not like the way Russia is run. We may not like the way Russia is defending its national interests. We may not agree with what it defines as its national interest. But we can no longer act as if it does not have one. Is this appeasement? No, its reality.

: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk...tons_bluff.html

Russians have always been good at chess, if you know what I mean

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Last edited by HardTranceProd on Jun-08-2007 at 17:31

Jun-08-2007 17:18 United States

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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by HardTranceProd
That's exactly right.

In fact:

: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk...tons_bluff.html

Russians have always been good at chess, if you know what I mean

Yeah, and Bush probably believes they're playing checkers.

2009 can't come soon enough. I can't believe we have such idiotic dipshits running our Executive Branch.

Whom can't they piss off?

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with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Jun-08-2007 18:06 United States

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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

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Jun-08-2007 19:52 Canada

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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

This just in - its headline news all over Russia's state media: US will not accept Putin's offer to use its radar in Azerbaijan and will continue to develop its radar and missile bases in Poland/Czech Rep. Azerbaijan even talked with Russia about possible interceptors there in Azerbaijan. Well then, Putin played his chess part well, he has every right now to build up arms. Obviously US plans are aimed against Russia. New Cold War is on the horizon?

Anyone who can read Russian, here's the linky, because you're probably not going to read this on the anti-Russian western media that will be quiet about Bush's refusal:

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=125299&cid=1

In fact, in the article, Bush actually just talked to Poland's leader and they have agreed to start building the damned thing.

Last edited by Magnetonium on Jun-09-2007 at 11:36

Jun-09-2007 11:30 Canada

MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart

Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium

This just in - its headline news all over Russia's state media: US will not accept Putin's offer to use its radar in Azerbaijan and will continue to develop its radar and missile bases in Poland/Czech Rep. Azerbaijan even talked with Russia about possible interceptors there in Azerbaijan. Well then, Putin played his chess part well, he has every right now to build up arms. Obviously US plans are aimed against Russia. New Cold War is on the horizon?

Anyone who can read Russian, here's the linky, because you're probably not going to read this on the anti-Russian western media that will be quiet about Bush's refusal:

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=125299&cid=1

In fact, in the article, Bush actually just talked to Poland's leader and they have agreed to start building the damned thing.

Jesus.

Why the fuck are we even talking about this stupid defense shield when it's been shown to be ineffective? Whom does it serve? (rhetorical question, I know - the defense contractors).

I can't believe this fucking child of a President we have is going to restart the damn Cold War again. Unbelievable. I guess the Middle East wars just wasn't enough for him to play with his toy Army soldiers in his office for the next 18 months.

The bastard's gonna get us all killed.

And BTW, there has been media here that picked up on it:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...EWS07/706090313

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl...ld/4875620.html

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Jun-09-2007 17:48 United States

Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep

Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

Yes, its really sad ... good thing some small western media outlets are airing this, but in the end I cant believe Bush's arrogance. Its appalling ... so much for the world security, trust and co-operation, and war on terror.

My favourite quotes from the articles:

Putin had more suggestions on Friday for locations for missile interceptors: "They could be placed in the south, in U.S. NATO allies such as Turkey, or even Iraq," Putin said. "They could also be placed on sea platforms."

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, in an Associated Press interview in New York, said Friday, "One does not choose sites for missile defense out of the blue. It's geometry and geography as to how you intercept a missile."

"This is an idea that has not yet been vetted," she [Rice] said of Putin's offer. "We have to see whether Azerbaijan makes any sense in the context of missile defense."

"The system we have proposed is not directed at Russia," Bush said after talks with Kaczynski at the presidential retreat at Jurata, a resort on the Baltic Sea. "Indeed, we would welcome Russian cooperation on missile defense." [LMAO]

So yes, Russian co-operation is continuing retreat, while NATO, US expands its bases, radar and missile bases, etc. closer to Russia's borders? Thats great "co-operation"!!! LOL.

Jun-09-2007 20:10 Canada

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