quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 The 1200's have a +/- 8% pitch slider, the CDJ-1000 +/- 6%, and they are physically the same length. Now move the CDJ's slider just enough to make a .02% pitch change... it's a TINY movement. Try doing that with a 1200 and it's 8% pitch slider, can't do it so well. TT's definately require significantly more pitch correction than CDJ's. Most DJ's won't admit that the technology made them better, but it did.

Crack open your 1200's and adjust the scale potentiometer if you want more (or less) resolution. I have the MK5's at the club set so that the range is more like +/- 7 (or a touch below that) over the range of the fader. You can even adjust the "zero point" so that it's non-symmetrical (+10/-6) if you really wanted to (I've thought about it since I have maybe ONE record in my collection that I ever play at anything less than -4).

I have smallish fingers and pretty good dexterity, so I feel that I can make those very small adjustments like others have been saying.

The ONLY way CDJ-type technology made me better was due to the ability to play music that's not out on vinyl and/or play music from digital promo pools that's not out yet on any format (see sig below). I've been playing with CD decks for a few years now, but I still feel like my mixes on vinyl are WAY tighter and smoother. I can throw down a record on the deck at the mixout point of the playing record, without having done ANY prior listening or beatmatching, and have it good to go within a couple measures. Even with a +/- .02 resolution, I still don't feel comfortable doing that on CD decks, and it definitely takes much longer to get matched up compared to vinyl.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJChrisB I'm totally against beatmatching by math, but in my experience nearly all tracks are recorded at a whole-number BPM. (Why the hell would someone produce a track and export it at some random decimal-number BPM?) When I map the beats of the tracks I have in Ableton, they are almost always at exactly at a whole number BPM.

In the studio I'm sure almost all producers do use a whole number tempo, but I'm 99% positive that remixers try, but don't always do so. Most remixes with vocal always seem to be just a touch off of a whole number, likely due to trying to get a vocal to fit right, or going +/- a whole number to speed the original vocal up to the point they want so it fits or sounds right (I'm working on a remix contest where that was the case with the vox in my mix, making it 129.8 so that it fit right).

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quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag Crack open your 1200's and adjust the scale potentiometer if you want more (or less) resolution. I have the MK5's at the club set so that the range is more like +/- 7 (or a touch below that) over the range of the fader. You can even adjust the "zero point" so that it's non-symmetrical (+10/-6) if you really wanted to (I've thought about it since I have maybe ONE record in my collection that I ever play at anything less than -4). I have smallish fingers and pretty good dexterity, so I feel that I can make those very small adjustments like others have been saying. The ONLY way CDJ-type technology made me better was due to the ability to play music that's not out on vinyl and/or play music from digital promo pools that's not out yet on any format (see sig below). I've been playing with CD decks for a few years now, but I still feel like my mixes on vinyl are WAY tighter and smoother. I can throw down a record on the deck at the mixout point of the playing record, without having done ANY prior listening or beatmatching, and have it good to go within a couple measures. Even with a +/- .02 resolution, I still don't feel comfortable doing that on CD decks, and it definitely takes much longer to get matched up compared to vinyl.

Quality post mate, i never had the time to check out the schematics on my techs for extra knowledge but i was gonna do it in the future. Thanks alot for this post, someone make this a sticky

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 We should find out what the M5G's have for pitch accuracy, because they use digital pitch control. I bet it's .1%.

Sorry, no digital pitch control on 1200's, it's analog.

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their latest turntable has a digital pitch mechanism, i'm sure its not the same technology as in a cdj thats for sure

edit-but the electrical signal is still analog

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan0751 Listen to old mixes by really renowned DJ's, they drift on TT's. If they are so super precise and perfect, why aren't they making perfect mixes?

A) old recording technology

- early 90's PC sequencing SUCKED, so it wouldn't be unheard of for a track to drift because of the sequencer itself (or bogging down the MIDI pipeline causing inaccuracies)

- some early tracks were done on reel to reel tape. I'm not talking about portastudios here, but about 1" or 2" tape machines running at very high speeds like 30 inches/sec (these machines were often running in the 5 or 6 digit price range). There could be fluctuation in those motors driving the reels that could put a drift in a track.

B) pressing plant variations

- Old vinyl cutters were known to have some drift in them. If the original pressing plate drifted while in production, then every record pressed from that plate would have drift in it. Before dance music and accurate beat matching came into the picture, these old pressing plants didn't really need to be as accurate as they are today.

- Even newer plants are known to still have some drift in them (and this might even be why a track in the studio was a 128 BPM but the plate cutting speed might have been calibrated a touch differently, making the track say, 128.1 BPM). I won't name the label, but a series of records from said label all seemed to have a slight drift at about the same time in the record. If they indeed used the same plant and/or machine, then that machine wasn't calibrated properly.

- Even something as new as the test-tone records for Rane's Serato Scratch had a drift in the first batch of records (per Rane's website)! Sure, they had a way to compensate for that until a new batch was made, but it just goes to show that the pressing plants aren't always 100% accurate.

C) the DJ's themselves

- maybe they had a bad session in the studio and the label ran out of money to do another take, so they went with what they had recorded.

- maybe that live mix was off because the DJ quite possibly had too much to drink during his set (I'm sure this doesn't happen often... LOL)

- maybe they were f'ing tired from massive jet lag from travelling

- maybe they just simply weren't as good then as they are now





All in all, there are a TON of factors here, and I'd say there's about a 2% chance it was the TT's.

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quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda their latest turntable has a digital pitch mechanism, i'm sure its not the same technology as in a cdj thats for sure edit-but the electrical signal is still analog

I was working in a DJ gear shop when the MK5's came out, and I don't remember anything about a digital pitch mechanism. I can't see any reason why they would even WANT to put a digital pitch control on there, to be honest.

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quote:

Originally posted by Andrømeda /end thread again i win

what?

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quote:

Originally posted by Andr�meda Quality post mate, i never had the time to check out the schematics on my techs for extra knowledge but i was gonna do it in the future. Thanks alot for this post, someone make this a sticky

You don't really need a schematic to do it, but it helps to know which potentiometer to adjust (I don't remember if they are labeled or not). When ya find the scale pot, put your fader up to +6 and see if the dots hold still. adjust the scale pot until they do. Double check the zero point and -3.3 to make sure it's calibrated to factory specs. You may need to make a zero point adjustment like I did on my MK2's (moving it out of the center detent quartz locked position make the pitch jump like a mofo at first), but with the MK3's and beyond, it may not be as critical).

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let's ask another question...

Q: What CAN make beat matching easier?

A: PRACTICING!!!

/end thread now

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excellent ownage by maytag

here's a link to the M5G

the pitch movement is actually computerized

There's no latency waiting for a TT motor to catch up to the pitch changes? It's WAY higher than changing the pitch setting in a DSP... by orders of magnitude.

Is that your mom calling?

quote:

Originally posted by Andrømeda how, prove it Every CD player that was ever made by man or machine has Latency, proven fact. /end thread again i win