Indeed - but the key difference is that it's not the only place to get involved in the "scene" now.

And I'm with Jason on this entire issue. His post was maybe the best in the thread, and one that I think a majority of individuals in this thread (myself included) could do well to be more mindful of.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Of course it was. Hell, the warehouse raves and clubs are the very places where the entire "scene" (sic) was born.

i certainly agree but what I meant was entirely different from how I iterated it. while warehouses and abandoned buildings are the basis for the locations (not to mention field and jungle and desert parties as well!), a club today connotates something entirely different for me than it did even 15 years ago.

i cant remember ever getting the same feelings in a club that i did listening and dancing for a day or two in the desert.

what I was getting at was how at least in my opinion, you can approximate the feeling with smaller and more personal parties rather than in a club full of socialites and guidos.

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the socialite/guido club ala pachca is sort of an alien thing to dance music culture - it's a more mainstream thing that exploded after the disco boom and eventually swallowed it up or maybe i should say 'bought it out '

I don't really want to get into a history lesson lol, but from the 70s until the 90s, with the deteroriation of the industrial and manufacturing sectors in many cities (especially new york where some of the first huge socialite clubs came into existence) came vacant buildings with exapansive floor plates and high ceilings, as well cheap real estate prices which proved perfect for things such as as artists' studios and nightclubs. (now it's considered 'trendy' to have an industrial 'aesthetic' in such places but the truth is it was born from the necessity) Among these clubs were the first generation dance music clubs and scenes, essentially free from bullshit fashion and just doing their own thing. The original sound factory is a good example of this.

At the same time you have a recent history of big-time, extravagant, and corrupt socialite clubs such as Studio 54, and the scene that went with it. Fast forward and you see dance music coming out of the underground and that the poor, counterculture artists in Chelsea have now made it 'cool' and primed it for settlement by the yuppies and the gentrification process begins. This also meant the gentrification of the nightclubs and the music itself (that's what money does).

Over time the socialite nightlife business machine came to dominate everything because its market had expanded to the once strictly underground neighborhoods. You see in NYC a series of closings and openings Sound Factory becomes Twilo becomes Spirit etc etc. With the mass market appeal to these clubs which were once regarded as havens for freaks and gays, music was also standardized, and innocence was lost. Expulsion from the garden... no more PLUR.

In short, it's always been about the club. The socialite thing is kind of an invasive species which chokes out all the light.

This is a good read


I can't really speak about the European scenes, but I assume there are parallels in both London and Berlin which have seen similar cultural changes


if anyone is wondering, i am probably going to be doing an architectural thesis on this very process of gentrification and the design of 'privileged' space versus 'egalitarian' space, thus my verbosity

Excellent article. Thanks for linking it.

quote:

One person who has suffered from these drastic changes in nightlife demographics is Junior Vasquez himself. In its final year, Sound Factory - ‘The House That Junior Built’ - was filled, not with people who loved him for his music, but with people who worshipped him as the world’s most celebrated DJ. He told me that the main reason he refused to come to Europe was because people would just stare at him in awe rather than share in the dance. However, this is exactly what happened in the Sound Factory. It became cool to be there. People came down because they thought they might see Madonna. In all respects, the dancefloor stopped moving.

Kind of made me think of this one, which someone linked a while ago:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/98...tein,229,1.html

Once you've become jaded I don't think there's a way back to loving everything and anything about dance music. You just develop standards, and if these standards aren't met what's the reason for liking it?

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The other weekend I was at a Nou's cabin and spent five hours spinning back-to-back with DJFreaq, also a TA. After we were done, we had a similar discussion. The last party all three of us had attended as a group was in May of 2006. It was a rave, but hey, why can't you just dick around and let go once in a while? The concept is good on paper, but it's not what actually happened. We were disgusted by it all. As a group, we stood right in front of the DJ booth just standing there, shaking our heads as the sound engineers destroyed the PA system, speakers blew out and the DJ redlined like nobodys business. DJFreaq was kind enough to point out to the DJ that redlining isn't cool, but the DJ shot back with, "Hey, I KNOW what I'm doing, so back off, it's okay."

It was that last weekend at the cabin that we realized we're at that point as "musicians" (quoted, because we DJ and produce as opposed to actually play an instrument) where we can't go out and really let go anymore. Every single kid around us was having a blast and we just sat there and didn't have a good time. We left early, drove thirty minutes to a restaurant and had a better time there than at the party. Why? Because for some reason we knew it was wrong and we let it get to us.

I've been out plenty of times since, and I've certainly noticed a difference between how I am now at parties and how I used to be. When I started going to massives at 17 I would have a blast and not really notice the mixing. Now I go to a club and can't stand it if somebody is off-phrase or obviously off-beat. Subtle mistakes shouldn't bug me, but they do.

I think the thing I've always liked most about this music, regardless of whether or not it's House or Gabber, is that it's a type of music that really doesn't stereotype (ie, Hip Hop/Rap being African American-centric or Country being for rednecks) and that's just about going out and having fun with everybody from every walk of life. It's music to dance to and to let yourself go and get away from everything for one night. It's great that I can be an artist or a "music snob", but as one I also need to remember the real underlying reason for why I'm here in the first place.

quote:

I think the thing I've always liked most about this music, regardless of whether or not it's House or Gabber, is that it's a type of music that really doesn't stereotype (ie, Hip Hop/Rap being African American-centric or Country being for rednecks) and that's just about going out and having fun with everybody from every walk of life. It's music to dance to and to let yourself go and get away from everything for one night. It's great that I can be an artist or a "music snob", but as one I also need to remember the real underlying reason for why I'm here in the first place.

Yes, the culture is synthetic and eclectic just like the music itself owing to its history of cultural cross polination. That has always been very inspirational to me, and I am always overjoyed when I meet someone from halfway around the globe who enjoys the most obscure music I own

Funny thread Montana, I was just thinking of this like, yesterday. But more in the sense of going out to clubs, and how the whole thing is just losing its appeal. I'll go see acts that I normally really like, but I just don't dance as much as I used to, it's harder for me to get into it and get lost in music when I'm out. I kind of miss the days where I'd go see Sasha or someone, eat drugs, get on the dance floor, start grooving and just completely let myself get envelopped in the sound and show, for 6+ hours. Lately though, no one is really innovating and keeping things really fresh.

The only guy who keeps me dancing like a nut no matter what is Danny Howells. He just has a way with his sets that suck you in, every track leads to the next and nothing seems out of place. And every set I hear from him is full of music I've never heard, and anything I have heard is usually a favorite. He's a DJ's DJ for sure. I agree with Adam, when you start putting alot of time into DJing, it really kills alot of the mystery when you're at a night. You'll hear tracks you play, and shoddy mixes, or shitty tracks you didn't buy for obvious reasons, and it's easy to fall in to that cynical elitism really fast I spend more time talking to friends and socializing now @ clubs than I ever did before, hanging out outside and on patios alot. And sometimes I feel like "why did I pay to go see XXX DJ, I didn't even listen to 20 minutes of their set."

IMO, local DJs are where it's at. Supporting people I know who feel the same way about music as me, is probably where I have most fun now.

I think above all, I've come to realise that the DJ really doesnt have to be the central focus of the party, and it really irks me to see guys play out who think they deserve all the fucking attention...

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

i have to back clovis up on DH. I had the opportunity this summer to hit the clubs harder than ever. Gone was the pumped up feeling and awe of the spectacle. I stopped going to the big clubs, boycotted events from large promoters.. All I craved was dark, deep, therapeutic dance music. Music that makes me feel good to be alive, like when you breathe in fresh cool air. I want to go to clubs where the DJ is going to fuck with my feelings, take me on a trip, create atmosphere.

Danny Howells brought that, and at Cielo, one of the most therapeautic club spaces in nyc. (except when desyn masiello plays). Funk D'Void also can do that to me, but Francois K does it like none other. This is a man who's been through it all. He makes anything sound like it's the first time it's ever been played. I left Cielo several times this summer with a feeling of reverie. I also don't eat pills. Except when hawtin plays.

Actually, the last time I felt "PLUR" was at Francois K's deep space NYC party, which is kind of like a club version of David Mancuso's loft parties. What did it for me more than anything was the fantastic crowd of positive minded, free, self-confident, inviduals not subject to needing to look cool or act a certain way or like a certain kind of music. It was all very primal and pure, very innocent and full of freedom. Seriously unparalled vibes when Theo Parrish and Francois K teamed up.


also agreed with local deejays. But for me to feel that plur/reverie it's all about the crowd

honestly though the main reason for my excitement fading away at parties is because I have had so much fucking fun deejaying and promoting my own parties. I put so much energy into that and believe in it with all my heart that nothing else comes close when it goes off right. If I got involved in the NYC scene I am sure I would have a rebirth of excitement at least for some time.

starting monday I'm going to be living in Rome, and I'll have the opportunity to uncover a very underground and closed music scene, completely different from the American system, and I am absolutely thrilled.

Last edited by nefardec on Aug-09-2007 at 19:44

Another +1 on Howells. Last time I saw him, he was unbelievable. Exactly like Clovis said, 95% of the set completely unknown tracks but makes you dance like crazy. None of the djs I've seen were able to do their job that well. Too bad the set wasn't recorded (or it was but didn't make it to the public), because I thought that was a unusual Howells set, even for his eclectic standards. He finished with some cross-over of trance and techno, pretty fast bpm, played harder than I expected.

He truly is the man who can restore faith in dance music and djing for even the most jaded music fan out there.

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"All revolutions are the sheerest fantasies until they happen; then they become historical inevitabilities."