quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous I was referring to the cost of the increase in gas prices only--not even total cost (from $2 to the current $3 or so). So yeah, I was being more than conservative with those figures

ps, gas is $2.58 here (cheapest)

I think it's about 2.80 or 2.90 here.

haven't done much driving lately.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous I think it's about 2.80 or 2.90 here. haven't done much driving lately.

damn, i thought it would have been cheaper.

Just what is America’s obsession with HUGE cars? Why would you want to drive a massive lumbering thing when you could drive zippy sports to fly in and out of traffic, and nab all the best parking spots? Fair enough if you’re a hick farmer down south who needs a big car, but what reason do people in big cities like Miami, Chicago and L.A etc have?

Every person seems to drive a borderline truck over there. All the cars that come out of America are butt-ugly (link), with hunks of cheap plastic stuck all over them and massive, over styled grilles. American cars are as stupid as they are ugly too, with the general premise being “all brawn, no brains”, i.e a gas-guzzling V12 engine, but shit handling so that you can’t do anything with it anyway.

In conclusion ladies and gentlemen: American cars suck.

p.s to be fair, two of the cars discussed by Maddox are made by foreign companies, however the Chevy Avalanche exemplifies exactly what I’m talking about.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog In conclusion ladies and gentlemen: American cars suck.

I drive a nissan?

i bought my truck to help w/ moving things - and its done a lot better of a job than a tiny little ford festiva hatchback ever would.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog what is America’s obsession with HUGE

michael bay

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quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Just what is America’s obsession with HUGE cars? Why would you want to drive a massive lumbering thing when you could drive zippy sports to fly in and out of traffic, and nab all the best parking spots? Fair enough if you’re a hick farmer down south who needs a big car, but what reason do people in big cities like Miami, Chicago and L.A etc have? Every person seems to drive a borderline truck over there. All the cars that come out of America are butt-ugly (link), with hunks of cheap plastic stuck all over them and massive, over styled grilles. American cars are as stupid as they are ugly too, with the general premise being “all brawn, no brains”, i.e a gas-guzzling V12 engine, but shit handling so that you can’t do anything with it anyway. In conclusion ladies and gentlemen: American cars suck. p.s to be fair, two of the cars discussed by Maddox are made by foreign companies, however the Chevy Avalanche exemplifies exactly what I’m talking about.

I've already addressed most of what you said in this thread.

As for the actual American car manufacturers, though, I completely agree. They're absolutely obsessed with horsepower, so they spend all the money on the engine, and none on the suspension or transmission, and produce cars that are no fun to drive unless you're going in a straight line. It's a big part of the reason why the whole industry is on its death bed. GM is arguably the most poorly run company in the world, and at the root of it all is the fact that they just don't understand what makes a good car.

That said, SUVs are made by everyone.

There's a big difference between defending someone who doesn't care about gas mileage and defending a manufacturer with the same stance. While there's nothing wrong with ignoring that factor, most people don't, and the manufacturer needs to understand that.

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Originally posted by inconspicuous and none of those hiveminds is big enough to include everyone. There's no single stereotype that's universally applicable or even accepted, no matter how many people in one circle can laugh at it.

You're leaning into the territory of stereotypical forum trolling rather than debate making accusations I'm angry, attacking me rather than the argument. Like all statistics you get a bit of variance either side of the median, but most are just some kind of average statistic when it comes to all those things.

quote:

The whole SUVs = crazy, hick soccer moms from bumblefuck, USA, who vote republican for no reason, hate gays, and are too stupid to understand the environment is what's behind this plug, anyway, and it's just tired and ignorant.

Yes, but most people are ignorant, do you think I like being lumped into the 'Asian women can't drive' cliché? Even though I've held a competition motorsport licence, a pilots licence and done several advanced driving courses at various points of my life. No, course I don't, but I do respect the fact that there's an awful lot of similarities between certain stereotypes and what actually happens on the road. Most women get their licences in cereal packets and most men get theirs by clubbing someone that looks like them over the head and stealing it if their actual skill level, attention span and behaviour behind the wheel of a very heavy vehicle is anything to go by.
Regardless of fuel use, roadhandling, convenience/inconvenience and actual intended purpose, the majority of owners seem to buy them for the perceived safety, social status and intimidation factor more than any other reason.

a vehicle is defined by what it can carry.
the only car i will own is some two-seater, sunday drivin', eyes-poppin', fun car.

as for my daily driver, it is 3/4 ton truck or no dice.
trucks make it happen, cars are for fun.
that's just me, everyone has their opinion on vehicles based on what they use or need them for.


when your broke down, i'll gladly pull you home with my Truck.

quote:

Originally posted by inconspicuous I've already addressed most of what you said in this thread. As for the actual American car manufacturers, though, I completely agree. They're absolutely obsessed with horsepower, so they spend all the money on the engine, and none on the suspension or transmission, and produce cars that are no fun to drive unless you're going in a straight line. It's a big part of the reason why the whole industry is on its death bed. GM is arguably the most poorly run company in the world, and at the root of it all is the fact that they just don't understand what makes a good car. That said, SUVs are made by everyone. There's a big difference between defending someone who doesn't care about gas mileage and defending a manufacturer with the same stance. While there's nothing wrong with ignoring that factor, most people don't, and the manufacturer needs to understand that.

re: SUV safety, which you discussed with Lilith, SUVs are not safter usually. Of course, a Hummer would, but 4WD of the Toyota/range rover type have high centres of gravity which makes them more likely to roll, and, as Lilith said, their weight gives them shit handling at high speed, which makes them more susceptible to slipping off the road.

Also, it’s inconsiderate to drive a Hummer etc if you have no need for it, because whoever you crash into is going to get shat on. In this case you can’t use the “it’s natural to care about your own safety” argument because well, I care about my welfare, as do all my friends and family, and we don’t see the need to drive borderline trucks around; it’s just pure selfishness if you do.

Actually, the biggest problem I have with these big vehicles is not so much that people buy them; it’s that they cannot drive them. The big vehicle phenomenon is not so far gone here from what I can ascertain, but we still have a lot of what you guys call “soccer mums” (why never “football mums”???) driving huge, hulking 4WDs around. If they actually had any idea how to drive them, it would probably be ok, but the reality is that they have no fucking clue. It’s painful trying to watch them get into a five metre wide, drive in spot that could fit two cars, and seeing them take six tries while eight cars are queued up behind them.

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So, because you're aggravated by a stereotype that people apply to you, you've decided to return the favor to any and all?

Most people are ignorant, regardless of race, gender, sexuality, religion, location, income, education, politics, personality, and values. There's almost no statement you can make about any human pattern that you can attribute solely to a set of characteristics which does not include ignorance. People buy SUVs due to ignorance. People buy hybrids due to ignorance. People buy sedans due to ignorance. People take public transportation & ride bikes due to ignorance.

As for the actual acquisition of licenses, the flaw in the process is in the test, itself. It's not that men or women manipulate it more. It's that the standards have to be set to a point at which it doesn't affect productivity on a large scale, but lowering it to that point allows people who compromise the safety of roads at what would otherwise be an unacceptable level to still drive. Stereotypes don't play any role in that.

Finally, I don't think you can effectively summarize the reasoning of an entire group of people without either comprehensive data or unquestionable logic--neither of which you have presented.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog re: SUV safety, which you discussed with Lilith, SUVs are not safter usually. Of course, a Hummer would, but 4WD of the Toyota/range rover type have high centres of gravity which makes them more likely to roll, and, as Lilith said, their weight gives them shit handling at high speed, which makes them more susceptible to slipping off the road. Also, it’s inconsiderate to drive a Hummer etc if you have no need for it, because whoever you crash into is going to get shat on. In this case you can’t use the “it’s natural to care about your own safety” argument because well, I care about my welfare, as do all my friends and family, and we don’t see the need to drive borderline trucks around; it’s just pure selfishness if you do. Actually, the biggest problem I have with these big vehicles is not so much that people buy them; it’s that they cannot drive them. The big vehicle phenomenon is not so far gone here from what I can ascertain, but we still have a lot of what you guys call “soccer mums” (why never “football mums”???) driving huge, hulking 4WDs around. If they actually had any idea how to drive them, it would probably be ok, but the reality is that they have no fucking clue. It’s painful trying to watch them get into a five metre wide, drive in spot that could fit two cars, and seeing them take six tries while eight cars are queued up behind them.

First, there are two aspects to safety--avoiding accidents and controlling the damage. Some people think it's safer to have a car that can avoid hitting something, some people think it's safer to have something that, if it is involved in an accident, will more effectively protect the people inside. I've never seen any statistics as to which is a more effective method, and it would be difficult to measure, since it would require quantifying the severity of injuries.

People buy things they don't need, and should be able to. It's not illegal to own an SUV, and there are people who have legitimate uses for them. There's no way to effectively differentiate between the two, so unless you want to ban SUVs entirely, then it's just short-sighted.

As it is with ignorance, bad driving is a universal attribute. Bad drivers drive all sorts of vehicles, so labeling any one group as being worse than any other is the product of bias, not reason.