You can't possibly be that dense.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange it's one thing to say shit like this in jest, but i think he/she was serious.

heh, I remember I was once sitting in a hospital waiting room when I was...hmm...12? I was thumbing through magazines, waiting for my name, when a family of 3 siblings came in, sat down, and gazed at the television. I didn't even know it was on. They sat there quiet and intent, gazing at this screen into utter nothingness - into prescription colours and scenarios, apparently unable to consider anything else in their environment other than what was on the display of this device. I'll never forget the look on that boy's face as he peered into it, amongst his sisters - it was the most vapid face I had ever seen and likely ever will see. It was as though he was not alive at all.

If you have a retort or even a treatise on how or why Ritalin and television are doing humanity a great service, I would be more than happy to read it.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On If I am to understand Scientology correctly, it centres around healing oneself through rigorous discipline. That doesn't say much in itself, but I don't think it's too far-fetched to assume that most people in this day and age are "damaged" in one way or another. I won't make claims to know "how it's always been", but it seems to me that overexposure to media such as television, internet, government, etc... is somehow draining the individuality and the spirit out of people. It's like people are controlled by mass media and are in need of some sort of salvation, and that Scientology delivers this on an individual level. I will not profess to claim whether this actually works or not, or is in fact the end-all solution to humanity's ailments, as I am not a Scientologist, but it seems to me that this is an answer to many people and for once it does not necessarily rely on archaic scribblings of long lost desert tribes with little relevance to the modern world...instead it is derived from science fiction novels by a mediocre author 50 some-odd years ago! It seems to me that scientology is, in essence, the anti-prescription, even though it is a prescription of thought, nevertheless. That is its blaring fault. Nevertheless, it is a leading force in denouncing the widespread prescription of psychotropic mind-control drugs on children (Ritalin, primarily) in the US and that is something I have not seen any other "religious" organization tackle. For this reason alone, I would gladly support them in their efforts to guide people to prescribing their own cures and looking inwards rather than blindly taking the prescriptions of some licensed drug pusher who has everything to gain from doping children into submission and non-thought. Is it right? Is it correct? It's so hard to pick and choose these days - sometimes you must side with the lesser of all evils.

there's a BIG difference between being against the overuse of prescription medication and ignoring the entire body of thought that psychology and psychiatry has given the human race. i find your selective emphasie rather disingenuous. even if drugs like ritalin werent being "pushed" onto children, they would still be against it. it, and any other mental medication.

turning your back on an entire body of scientific thought reeks of stupidity to me. and its pretty funny that the scientologists dont see the irony when they denounce "mind control" drugs

___________________

Well I was careful to say that I wasn't necessarily against the body of thought but rather the economics of the issue which seem to have taken precedence in America. Of course psychology and psychiatry have made their contributions towards improving human ailments. I'm not saying that either is entirely bunk in the least. But there comes a point where over-prescription of both drugs and of psychological remedy is merely a result of off-brand hysteria and misdiagnoses of the media.

I honestly don't know the situation of prescription drugs in Australia, but I know that in the US, it's an unsung issue that kids are being put onto Ritalin merely because 1) psychiatrists in the US are given generous incentives directly from pharmaceutical corporations and 2) because teacher is tired of trying at his or her job, so it's much easier just to recommend to the parents of any problem children that they see a Psychiatrist under the assumption that their child has some sort of "disorder".

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN and its pretty funny that the scientologists dont see the irony when they denounce "mind control" drugs

Yeah, well, people who deal in absolutes often fail to see the irony in situations because they can see no farther than their own side. I wish this were merely restricted to religious organizations, but its an all too common precedent in any human endeavour.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I honestly don't know the situation of prescription drugs in Australia, but I know that in the US, it's an unsung issue that kids are being put onto Ritalin merely because 1) psychiatrists in the US are given generous incentives directly from pharmaceutical corporations and 2) because teacher is tired of trying at his or her job, so it's much easier just to recommend to the parents of any problem children that they see a Psychiatrist under the assumption that their child has some sort of "disorder".

oh yeah, im not denying theres a problem. but scientology certainly isnt the answer scientologists love to use these examples to slander the entire medical profession, which just isnt credible imo. it doesnt stop the fact that plenty of the people in "over-medicated america" get a huge benefit from psychological treatment(s), and this doesn't just mean pharmaceuticals.

to me, supporting scientology's attitudes to professional mental healthcare is kinda like praising hitler for the autobahns

___________________

It *is* a really nice road...

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

You won't get any argument from me about the prescription of drugs to kids, it's a hideous activity which masks a lot of unpleasantness about our societies lack of care, poor parenting and general ignorance about health.

Scientology is just still a cult made up as sort of a joke/bet between a couple of writers, if it matters any I think all the major organised religions are nothing more than cults as well. Replacing freedom of thought, actions, enforcement of ecclesiastical norms on their followers is just trading in a rather large part of self determination and responsibility along with 'tithes', for socially accepted ignorance. Pretty big trade in really when you think about it at it's extremes, sure they don't give their kids medicine but what do they lose in return?
Hubbard as a contemporary has nothing to give me about spirituality, just as a bunch of iron age goat herders 'god stories' about creation and my place in society, have any apparent relevance to modern life either.

I agree.

I've always considered the only major difference between what is considered a 'cult' and what is considered a 'religion' to be nothing more than the its numbers.

___________________
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On It *is* a really nice road...

___________________

Well... he is right, it is a really nice road you're allowed to drive really fast on in some places.

yeah, i know. but technically, those autobahns currently in operation didnt survive the war surely? so hitler didnt really build them

quote:

I've always considered the only major difference between what is considered a 'cult' and what is considered a 'religion' to be nothing more than the its numbers.

id like moral hazard's input on this one

___________________

People can believe what they want, it's just grossly unfair to inflict it on other people who aren't interested, too young to know the difference or simply don't really want to be emotionally bullied about their spiritual well being.