and no not angular momentum I think the pope deserves respect yes, does he have a pipeline to God more than any other person, No. To say that God would make it difficult enough to talk to Him by making you go through priests and whatnot like they will get a good word in for you with the big guy is illogical. And to say that God is illogical wouldnt make too much sense and would most likely be considered blasphemous.

quote:

Originally posted by Orbax all of the problems you are stating are from the corruption of the Catholic church. God gave men free will to do what they wish. If the pope did nothing that doesnt mean God wanted him to have the Jews slaughted. And Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. The whole thing says take revenge, kill in the name of your God et cetera. The Bible has some brutal stuff in the Old Testament but that is when God was trying to form the nations. Can you imagine what we would have to do to the arabs to make them believe in America? Yeesh wed probably end up killing them in the process.

I think your comments about Islam could be greatly misguided here. Im not Muslim myself, and do not claim to know a lot about Islam, but I do beleive that Islam is a peaceful religion. Similar to Christianity, there are beleivers in Islam and Christianity that are quite fanatical. They read the Koran/Bible is have a different interpretation than others may. In Christianity, there were the Crusades, which were brutal.

I dont claim to know much about the bible either, but does it not mention that Gentiles (non-Christians) will die on judgement day (im not sure about the die part, but im sure that the bible condemns non-christians). Is this not brutal?

One of the reasons I have lost my faith (I was raised Catholic, was Baptised, had Communion/Confirmation etc) is because I dont think God would say, just because you read this book (Bible) and go to this building (Church), you will be saved. I believe that if God exists (Im not sure either way) that as long as I live a good life, thats all that matters. I do not condemn anyone for their beliefs, even though they may be radically different than mine. There are a few things about SOME religious people that bother me though:
1) People that do things in "the name of God"... Im sure God didnt give you a special message to hurt someone else, so dont use God as a scapegoat
2) People that tell me, if you do not devote your life to God, you will suffer in the after life.... first, if God exists, Im sure God would not judge me based on 'Attendence' and more on my merit, and the way i lived my life

All in all, I think that the majority of organized religions are good, because they all have strong moral messages (aside from the eye for an eye, jihad type scriptures, but the love thy neighbor type stuff is what im refering to). I have respect for religious people provided they dont try to 'Convert' me.

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I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Albert Einstein

My statements come from one who has read both the Bible and Koran and reads,writes, and speaks both hebrew and arabic. And you can go to heaven without ever having read the Bible or having gone to church. Catholic and Christian teachings say that the way to heaven is by a relationship to God through his son, Jesus Christ. This goes into slightly deeper levels of Christianity, but when you say it isnt fair that everyone but people who have been saved by God die on judgement day, its slightly off. Now you actually have to believe in God to have this make sense to you, these words fall upon deaf ears so to speak if you do not believe. If you saw what God sees in those who have not had their sins repented, you would see a dark, twisted, scaled creature of the soul. Sin is not a beautiful thing, it is evil. So God see us as our spirits, not our bodies. It is the spirit that he is killing, that dark twisted creature. So non-christians at that point wouldnt just be people who lived good lives and are still getting killed, they are people who chose either God or Satan, and it is one or the other, it is one of those for or against things, and by not choosing God they have chosen Satan and been twisted. Again, this might be difficult to understand, and atheists wont care because they dont believe in God, but that explains that part. I dont want this to be a sermon about change your life and you are wrong, but this is kind of how the doctrine of these churches work. Maybe this will drive the story home. There is a sweet, 70 year old librarian. She gardens in her spare time, teaches children how to read, and never does anything wrong. She does not really believe in God, she thinks something might be out there, but she never really cared, and she figures that if she is good, shell be happy in whatever comes next. Question: Does she go to heaven when she dies? Answer:No. Again, this is for people who believe in God. Atheists and Agnostics dont respond. This is an explanation of the doctrine. If it seems harsh, it isnt really, but youd have to have a pretty deep knowledge and belief of the Christian religion and our relationship to God to understand why. Dont take this as me telling you "You are going to Hell" Im just telling you some thoughts that go into the mix.

Last edited by Orbax on May-05-2002 at 22:24

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Originally posted by Timetwister Think that the Bible has something in it like all man are created equally.

no...

God himself says to Moses that slaves are property, and if you kill a man's slave, you just have to pay him a bit and you'll be forgiven...

some equallity.

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atheist, if there is no God why are you so passionate about it? They are trying to help you and you are trying to hurt them.

I see it the other way around actually.


sadly, all arguments have died... we better get this arguemnt over before the Antichrist rises and the Apocolypse happens. oh wait, that was spossed to happen last millenium....

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The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

I'm muslim , i believe in God and all his prophets , and i'm proud of it

___________________
"A style that's impossible to define. Prog? Hardly. Tech house? Not boring enough. It's like trippy twisted acid house but deep and funky. See, I told you - impossible."

i heard that einstein...one of the greatest minds in history even said after doing all of his research and studies that there had to be a God...everything is too intricate and the world is like a formula..there HAD to be a creator..and honestly if you said "im living and thats all i care about" you need to think deeperabout your existence here...and see what you come up with...cant hurt ya right? btw im christian =]

Stephen Hawking, pretty much the most insanely brilliant person on earth is a Christian. If you want your mind blown read this guys stuff. He is the guy in the wheel chair who cannot talk and uses a computer to talk for him and has made the craziest discoveries. The point isnt that hes Christian, but that he believes in a creator. If you want to ask what does a mathematician know about gods, read his stuff and find out what work this man does. Im not going to try to paraphrase it.

quote:

God himself says to Moses that slaves are property, and if you kill a man's slave, you just have to pay him a bit and you'll be forgiven... some equallity.

If you want to understand this go to a pastor. Its complicated and is a deeper level of Christianity. Im not going to go into it with someone who doesnt believe and isnt open minded about it. And if you say im open minded the ...some equality thing is a very close minded statement, you already made your judgement. But again, if you are truly and honestly saying WHY? ask someone who knows. Because if not understanding the Bible is your only reason for not believing and you are willing to risk the eternity after your life on the fact of "I dont get it! I give up!" thats your choice of course , but maybe one that should be re evaluated.

well i am a true believer in god and a proud christian . if u r an athiest then u have no clue why do we believe in god. although i never saw him. i could feel him around me watching over. i have seen miracles done in his name. The best experience ever is when i attended a mass given by the pope. i felt my spirit lifted up and was the best experiences ever. i try to do my best to follow his instructions and guidance. Science cannot explain everything.It cannot explain miracles, it cannot explain how a virgin gave birth.
so dont use this as an excuse. I am great believer in science and logic but they dont explain everything.


Question for those who dont believe in god. Why dont u steal? why dont u kill? why dont u rape? what is ur purpose in life? what guides you? is there any purpose for you? do u help the less fortunate? if yes why/

wow that is sad that so many of you dont believe in god and only care that ur alive....pretty selfish..but we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions..i dont have much respect for those that dont though i can't help it...

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My soliloquy may be hard for some to swallow, but so is cod liver oil.

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Originally posted by notelfreak man i can't believe i tried to come off as responsible in that other thread, i am so full of shit just don't tell anyone

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Originally posted by Slylee wow that is sad that so many of you dont believe in god and only care that ur alive....pretty selfish..but we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions..i dont have much respect for those that dont though i can't help it...

now for MY believe and oppinion, and I will flame you because i cannot help it.

I think religion is a selfish, ignorant mindset that has been nothing but opium for humanity. (Nice quote Marx, too bad your communism idea was really dumb)

Christianity says that they are better than 4/5'th of the world, and that a selfish, bombastic, all controlling God, created a puzzle of events all in coordinates to make a group of humans go into a Heaven, and the rest into a Hell.

I think it's a security blanket that keeps people tranquil, but also ignorant and misleaded.

If you are not a Christian, but are a Jew or Muslim, I appologize. You just sounded like a casual-christian, and my assumption is my fault.

___________________
The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic Question for those who dont believe in god. Why dont u steal? why dont u kill? why dont u rape?

because there are consequences, and as an emotional creature, I have thoughts and feelings too.

I would cringe at the thought that the only reason people don't rape and plunder because a God is watching them!
If someone proved to you that God didn't exist, if one day you realized you weren't going to Hell, would you go crazy and rape/steal/screw around? That is very short-sided, playing society by the rules offers a much greater reward than by trying to splurge on the notion that society is a game, and in the bare-bones essence of it, means nothing.
Also, many God-fearing men raped and plundered over time, just showing that men believe what they want to, and not what's correct.

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what is ur purpose in life? what guides you? is there any purpose for you? do u help the less fortunate? if yes why/

Well, my purpose...to have a great time, and learn as much as i can. My existance IMHO, is much more exciting than one a Christian feels. New discoveries are happening every week, we are piecing together the Universe's puzzle.
Rather than trying to comply the Universe with an age-old idea, everything is out in the open. Although many Christians refuse to hear Athiest written books or "propaganda", I read lots of Christian material.

I feel like i am a decent person. I do not think I am selfish. I am not a charitable person, but I have my own morals. (although they are not on the little things that many religous persons dwel on, i am flexible with my behavior.)

___________________
The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

quote:

Originally posted by tranceaholic Question for those who dont believe in god. Why dont u steal? why dont u kill? why dont u rape?

I don't want to get robbed, or killed or raped. Simple as that. Apart from laws preventing me to do it. i think that humans are smart enough to have figured out that we are stronger as a community, and in order for such a community to work, rules were established.
These rules are OBVIOUS.

quote:

what is ur purpose in life?

do the best I can to live a productive live, so that, the second before i die, i can say to myself:

"I have worked hard, I have done everything i could to leave the world a better place than it was, when i was born. My children are better off than I was when i was young."

At the point, at which i have done that, i can die a happy man, because i have fullfilled my life.

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what guides you?

My reason and emotions. A combination between the "Ich", "überich" and the "es", as some psychologist put it.

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do u help the less fortunate? if yes why/

I am aware that Altrusim is something that does not exit. I do help the less fortunate sometimes, sometimes i do not. Why?
i could be worse off and I would help the less fortunate. I get the "warm & fuzzy" feeling when helping less fortunate people, because society has coined me that way. i am aware that a person, who is less forutnate than me, might be in that position due to bad luck. Helping him, might give him a second chance.

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03