There is a benefit in free music as well and you cannot deny it, track/artist promotion which then opens up more opportunities for club bookings which is $$. Not everyone buys tracks online right after they see it on beatport and other sites. I download a lot of music, free and bought and in many cases i started buying tracks from the artist after i downloaded a compilation or a track for free prior to that and liked that persons style/work. Same with sets, big promotion tool.

Regarding the leaked track, Angello should just watch who he is giving promos to, if you don't want your release to leak don't give it out to random people, his own fault imo.

quote:

Originally posted by junkie_val i usually stay out of threads like this, but.... i agree with him and i am shocked to hear these kind of responses. do you think tracks just make themselves? do you think there is no cost to making music? do you think a studio just magically appears with loads of free gear? i spend alot of time and money in the studio and to see people respond in such a negative way hurts. i know he kinda went off the deep end a little with his post, but rightfully so he's pissed. val

Remember people on TA are a very small percentage of the industry, but if this thread is any indication on the general consensus, it's no wonder tracks aren't making any money these days.

Music isn't cheap folks. But it's provided extremely cheap to the public to entice people to purchase. Yet even with that incentive, and incredibly easy accessibility (iTunes, Beatport, etc) people still find it easier to pirate without any remorse or thoughts about it. I know many people who even play out at clubs playing illegally obtained music (some who I know will even read this thread).

Personally, if you're just going to listen for aesthetic value and pirate a couple tunes I don't really care, as long as you kick out a couple bucks here and there. But if you're going to perform and make money off of illegal tunes that's pretty much a slap in the face to every other DJ/Producer in the industry who's actually working their ass off in the studio to provide you with music. Anyone who does this should be completely ashamed of themselves, but that's my personal opinion. That said, I've played downloaded tunes in the past, but I've since grown up and realized the possible impact of doing so. It's important that if you're in the industry to understand how things work.

The convenience factor of stealing music is only one of the problems with this situation. The fact that people don't even care or realize how much it's hurting the industry (especially dance music, which isn't a massive market compared to pop, etc) is what's more disturbing.

Artists depend on royalty cheque's from tracks to survive, in some cases. Sure, making music is a way to advertise for DJ gigs which will garner more overall revenue, but those royalty cheque's are still vitally important.

The majority of people here will never understand royalty percentages, producer advance negotiations, or just how much work and effort goes into releasing a track (I'm not even talking about MAKING the actual song), and even if people did, today's social standards prove that they wouldn't care anyway.

The music industry is changing, that's obvious. For the better? That's yet to be seen as things are constantly evolving. Will things disappear? Not at all. People will just end up changing and adapting to the different way of whatever type of music distribution the future holds.

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Originally posted by darouge11 lol hes probably making more money doing gigs then making tracks.....

Exactly.

Artists should produce music for the love of music, not solely for monetary reasons. If fans appreciate your music they will follow you, and you should be able to make your income from shows and gigs, which is wehre alot of artists seem to make their money from.

Look at Prince. He gave away his last album for free, then proceeded to tour at sold out shows. Looks like this is the way of the future.

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hello thar

quote:

Originally posted by Porky Exactly. Artists should produce music for the love of music, not solely for monetary reasons. If fans appreciate your music they will follow you, and you should be able to make your income from shows and gigs, which is wehre alot of artists seem to make their money from. Look at Prince. He gave away his last album for free, then proceeded to tour at sold out shows. Looks like this is the way of the future.

sigh.

besides the prince thing as possibly the worst example ever in the history of backing up an argument, the stagnant fact remains that if you are a professional artist you should be PAID for the WORK you do.

You wouldn't expect to walk out of a automobile dealership with a brand new car - simply because some company really loves making cars - so how can you expect to receive music that takes time, effort, equipment investment (to name a few) for free? Where does the culture of entitlement come from?

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You told me to look much farther. You told me to walk much more. You told me that music matters.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen people still find it easier to pirate without any remorse or thoughts about it.

I think people are changing their perceptions about music, valuing it as a free commodity. If you can listen to radio for free why pay for music?

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen Personally, if you're just going to listen for aesthetic value and pirate a couple tunes I don't really care, as long as you kick out a couple bucks here and there. ... Anyone who does this should be completely ashamed of themselves, but that's my personal opinion. That said, I've played downloaded tunes in the past, but I've since grown up and realized the possible impact of doing so. It's important that if you're in the industry to understand how things work.

Chris, I agree with you in that if you're a dj yourself, that you should help support the producers. But to the mass audiences wehre do you draw the line? What is acceptable: supportinig the artists for a few tunes, an album? As music becomes completely accessible and requires only a small of time to obtain free music, at what point would you need to force monetary compensation for every single track that you release? maybe artists need to rethink how they value their music and realize a different model for revenue. Instead of trying to sell all of their music for $1 a track, they should give away their music for free to the public (ala Radiohead and Prince) and only force compensation from people that actually profit from their music (radio stations, DJs etc).

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen Artists depend on royalty cheque's from tracks to survive, in some cases. Sure, making music is a way to advertise for DJ gigs which will garner more overall revenue, but those royalty cheque's are still vitally important. The majority of people here will never understand royalty percentages, producer advance negotiations, or just how much work and effort goes into releasing a track (I'm not even talking about MAKING the actual song), and even if people did, today's social standards prove that they wouldn't care anyway.

Sure royalty cheques are important for an artist to survive, but on the flip side, maybe some artists should realize that their music sucks and not have to rely on royalty cheques and to rant and rave to force money from their fans. The internet is democratizing the music industry and unfortunately weeding out crappy artists who are demanding their slice of the pie. The bottom line is that if you produce quality tracks and earn the respect and adoration of your fans, the money will follow (via shows and gigs etc).

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hello thar

How exactly do you think Radiohead got to be in a position to give out music for free in the first place???

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You told me to look much farther. You told me to walk much more. You told me that music matters.

This is why i miss vinyl. It at least kept people honest and forced them to pay for their tracks, although they were pricey.

The customer will always want stuff (products) for free...and even if it's free, they'll find an excuse for more.

You don't see Dolce & Gabbana, Valentino, or Cavali put out stuff for free that they spend their time designing and making for months.

As someone already mentioned, it's a double edged sword. On one hand, it helps promote small, independent artists who would otherwise never get exposure...but it also kills artists who are in the same boat but already have exposure and rely on sales to pay for any future work. Tours and live gigs def. pay the big $$$....but that's only for established big artists for the most part. The smaller bands, artists don't get to 'Tour'.

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Fast to jump to conclusions much? Woooosh!

quote:

Originally posted by Irishaddict besides the prince thing as possibly the worst example ever in the history of backing up an argument, the stagnant fact remains that if you are a professional artist you should be PAID for the WORK you do.

Radiohead's latest album is another example. They gave away their music for free realizing that there was no way to stop all the pirating. Some people paid a dollar, some paid for the whole album, but people were still pirating b/c it was easier to get the album for free off torrent sites than to sign up on their website to get the album.


but here's another example laura. as a pvd fan i used to travel around to diff gigs to see him spin. as a fan who donwloaded his music for free, i repaid my respects by attending alot of his shows and buying his CDs.

Do i have remorse or guilt for downloadinig pvd mp3s for free? No. Am i completely ashamed of myself as Chris Allen pointed out? Hell no. But i have help support the artists (pvd is one of the main example) by supporting his income in alternative ways (seeing 12+ pvd gigs in chicago/nyc/ibiza).

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hello thar

quote:

Originally posted by Frenchie Fast to jump to conclusions much? Woooosh!

what?

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You told me to look much farther. You told me to walk much more. You told me that music matters.

I'm patiently waiting for when the music industry finally collapses because of illegal downloading (lol), so it could rebuild itself from the ground up. Musicians would make music no matter what. Music existed long before labels existed, and music will continue to exist after the labels die.

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I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
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