I keep my argument short and to the point:

Would you allow me to have parts of your body in order to sustain my life?

Why or why not?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Beatflux I keep my argument short and to the point: Would you allow me to have parts of your body in order to sustain my life? Why or why not?

If it was something I could live without and you couldn't live without; yes. If it merely meant I would be inconvenienced for 9 months, after which I'd be none the worse for the wear; definitely yes, especially if it was my fault you were in that situation to begin with.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono none the worse for the wear; .

you're kidding right? only a guy could express an opinion like that!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you're kidding right? only a guy could express an opinion like that!

Yeah, I am a guy, but considering the overwhelming majority of women have little or no long term after effects from pregnancy, I'm not sure what you're inferring. Now, if women consistently came away disfigured or with chronic illness or injury, I can see where you're coming from.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Yeah, I am a guy, but considering the overwhelming majority of women have little or no long term after effects from pregnancy, I'm not sure what you're inferring. Now, if women consistently came away disfigured or with chronic illness or injury, I can see where you're coming from.

tell that to all of those with torn vaginas, or weight they just cant get rid of, deterioration of the boobies, post natal depression, stretch marks or scars from c sections, or the numerous issues that occur during pregnancy that can endanger their lives.

either way it doesn't really bother me, no matter how "correct" you are in the semantics. A foetus is not a human being according to the law and abortions are legal, and that's all I really care about.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN tell that to all of those with torn vaginas, or weight they just cant get rid of, deterioration of the boobies, post natal depression, stretch marks or scars from c sections, or the numerous issues that occur during pregnancy that can endanger their lives. either way it doesn't really bother me, no matter how "correct" you are in the semantics. A foetus is not a human being according to the law and abortions are legal, and that's all I really care about.

The problem is when is it not a foetus any more and an actual child inside? Considering that people have been born at 22 weeks (actual record being 21 weeks & 5 days gestation), this line may be set at a point in time where people still get abortions.

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Originally posted by ali92 The problem is when is it not a foetus any more and an actual child inside? Considering that people have been born at 22 weeks (actual record being 21 weeks & 5 days gestation), this line may be set at a point in time where people still get abortions.

honestly, i really REALLY don't care. the doctors + government have drawn the line when it is/is not acceptable. people can argue til theyre blue in the face regarding whether that is a proper place to put the line, but as long as there is a reasonable amount of time for the woman to terminate her pregnancy, i don't care. im not interested in the semantics of brain stems or pain receptors or fingers and toes.

if the person responsible for that child does not wish to carry it to term (for whatever reason) i will always support a woman's right to choose over the supposed rights of a few cells. and i find men telling women what they can and cannot do with their bodies borders on the offensive.

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But you feel that taking away the rights of an individual to life just becuase your responsible for that life and it inconveniences you, somehow justifies that you can kill a child. It's not men telling you what you can do with your bodies it's people telling you what you can do with another persons body. I mean after all you yourself are just a few cells, when compared to the total amount of cells in the world. With this reasoning lifeguards aren't responsible for negligent deaths becuase they weren't paying attention and they were playing video games. Or a firefighter can simply pass by your room when your house is burning down becuase it would inconvenience him.

By what you state you show negligent disregard for human life based off the assumption that the person your killing isn't really a person but a glob of cells. Your logic and (anyone who agrees with you) is flawed. It's not the womans right anyways to get an abortion it's the child's right and since it cannot make choices on it's own it's up to the justice system to fight for said individual.

The first day you decide to have sex your you are responsible for all outcomes of that activity. If you get AIDs from someone it's not their fault it's yours. If you suffer from some mental abnormality after having sex it's your fault. If you have a baby its your fault, live with it, the father might have a say as well considering it's just as much his child as yours.

The very second the egg is fertilized life begins, I don't care what your argument is, I'm not a religious zealot. Common sense says that if life results from a process the process is part of "life". If the process is part of "life", the process is "life". There for by the process of anaylitcal induction we conclude that when the process starts "life" starts.

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http://www.myspace.com/topix101

Last edited by DJ UD on Feb-07-2008 at 05:21

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Originally posted by DJ UD But you feel that taking away the rights of an individual to life just becuase your responsible for that life and it inconveniences you, somehow justifies that you can kill a child. It's not men telling you what you can do with your bodies it's people telling you what you can do with another persons body.

a foetus is not a person.

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Originally posted by DJ UD I mean after all you yourself are just a few cells, when compared to the total amount of cells in the world. With this reasoning lifeguards aren't responsible for negligent deaths becuase they weren't paying attention and they were playing video games. Or a firefighter can simply pass by your room when your house is burning down becuase it would inconvenience him.

i suggest you go to school and take "debating 101" coz that makes NO sense.

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Originally posted by DJ UD By what you state you show negligent disregard for human life based off the assumption that the person your killing isn't really a person but a glob of cells.

youre right. i couldnt give a shit about the foetus.

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Originally posted by DJ UD Your logic and (anyone who agrees with you) is flawed. It's not the womans right anyways to get an abortion

wrong. and roe V wade and all other legal restrictions in liberal democracies agree with me.

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Originally posted by DJ UD it's the child's right and since it cannot make choices on it's own it's up to the justice system to fight for said individual.

nonsense. that's YOUR interpretation. and since when has the justice system made a habit of standing up for individuals that cant stand up for themselves? the foetus has no rights before (insert week here) so you and all your other paternalists can suffer under what this justice system states: foetuses are not individuals and a woman has the right to abort if she wants.

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Originally posted by DJ UD The first day you decide to have sex your you are responsible for all outcomes of that activity.

yes, and having an abortion is one of those responsibilities.

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Originally posted by DJ UD If you get AIDs from someone it's not their fault it's yours. If you suffer from some mental abnormality after having sex it's your fault. If you have a baby its your fault, live with it, the father might have a say as well considering it's just as much his child as yours.

irrelevent non sequiturs.

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Originally posted by DJ UD The very second the egg is fertilized life begins,

yes, and the second the doctor with the drugs or special vacuum cleaner gets to work, life ends.

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Originally posted by DJ UD Common sense says that if life results from a process the process is part of "life". If the process is part of "life", the process is "life". There for by the process of anaylitcal induction we conclude that when the process stats "life" starts.

again, i dont care. i really dont care when "life" starts. i care about a woman's choice to control her body. and so do the courts. unlucky.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN a foetus is not a person.

Typical, unoriginal, liberal argument for justifying killing the fetus.

So if it's not a person, then what is it? A Giraffe?

I'm an Atheist. I hold no puritanical views on life. But I'm not so delusional that I don't know that when a woman gets pregnant, she's begun the start of a new human life inside of her.

That being said, I've already stated why I still think that abortion is necessary in this world. But please; Saying that you're NOT squashing out a human life in the process is disingenuous and self-serving.

Own up to what abortion is at least, if you have to go there.

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The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco So if it's not a person, then what is it? A Giraffe?

Maybe a bit blunt, but a good question none the less.

What is it that you are killing/aborting/terminating when an abortion is carried out?