quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 it's a matter of degree. what's the difference between shouting at israelis from a school with children in it so that the israelis don't shoot back, or shooting at israelis with a child in your arms. nothing really.

I'm assuming when you said, "shouting at israelis", you meant "shooting at Israelis."

1. Don't you think once war broke out, all schools in the area would be cancelled?

2. Give me some evidence for your assertion that Hezbollah militants were fighting with children in their arms.

3. What's the degree that you refer to?

4. The accusation of the use of civilian shields by Hezbollah, in my opinion, is a decrepit excuse to try to explain away why more Lebanese civilians were killed than Hezbollah militants.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's not an emotional plea, it's an ethical stance that you choose to obviously not make. Not to mention as acceptance of status quo, which again translates to a lack of ethics. You can't reject the former while simoultaneously accepting the latter, that's just pure contradition and gives tt no legitimate basis. What's so hard to understand about that?

that's a great response to display my point. i never said i was satisfied with the status quo. i disagree with alot of things that israel does. However, i understand that there is no way that jewish people will leave the middle east. unlike you, i don't think continually mentioning that israel has taken land will do anything to fix the current situation. A prospective approach needs to be taken.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I'm assuming when you said, "shouting at israelis", you meant "shooting at Israelis." 1. Don't you think once war broke out, all schools in the area would be cancelled? 2. Give me some evidence for your assertion that Hezbollah militants were fighting with children in their arms. 3. What's the degree that you refer to? 4. The accusation of the use of civilian shields by Hezbollah, in my opinion, is a decrepit excuse to try to explain away why more Lebanese civilians were killed than Hezbollah militants.

i in fact did write "shooting." I was just using that as an example. When i said it's a matter of degree, i meant that operating within a civilian zone will become shielding when a certain line is crossed. So, to the extent that the military operations are purposefully conducted near civilians it is shielding.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 that's a great response to display my point. i never said i was satisfied with the status quo. i disagree with alot of things that israel does. However, i understand that there is no way that jewish people will leave the middle east. unlike you, i don't think continually mentioning that israel has taken land will do anything to fix the current situation. A prospective approach needs to be taken.

LOL, I didn't propose or think that they need to "leave" if you pay more attention to the previous post I quoted from another thread .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 i in fact did write "shooting." I was just using that as an example. When i said it's a matter of degree, i meant that operating within a civilian zone will become shielding when a certain line is crossed. So, to the extent that the military operations are purposefully conducted near civilians it is shielding.

So what, are they supposed to operate only out in isolated fields? I don't think you understand the concept of "total war". There is no separation or differences between civilian areas and combat areas. They are one in the same. And to try to establish such catagories has little basis in the reality of war. If a war is to be started, there is a 100% certainly civilians will be killed. To say that such killing by the INVADER is the fault of the defenders of the territory is not a logical point of view.

Also, you did not answer points 1 and 2 which refutted your assertion that Hezbollah used children in their tactics.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton So what, are they supposed to operate only out in isolated fields? I don't think you understand the concept of "total war". There is no separation or differences between civilian areas and combat areas. They are one in the same. And to try to establish such catagories has little basis in the reality of war. If a war is to be started, there is a 100% certainly civilians will be killed. To say that such killing by the INVADER is the fault of the defenders of the territory is not a logical point of view.

if you chose to operate that way, then you have no right to bitch when your people die. hezbollah clearly could have avoided civilian areas.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 if you chose to operate that way, then you have no right to bitch when your people die. hezbollah clearly could have avoided civilian areas.

I think that statement is 100% bullshit. DId you read my comment on "total war"? Did that sink in? Does the use of cluster bombs mean anything to you? Do you know more civilians than Hezbollah militants died? This is clearly the fault of the invader, not the defenders.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I think that statement is 100% bullshit. DId you read my comment on "total war"? Did that sink in? Does the use of cluster bombs mean anything to you? Do you know more civilians than Hezbollah militants died? This is clearly the fault of the invader, not the defenders.

you are assuming it was totally unprovoked.

quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 you are assuming it was totally unprovoked.

What? 1000+ civilian deaths for two kidnapped IDF soldiers? Come on dude...

I hope you now understand there is no difference between civilian or combat areas. Total war stipulates they are one in the same, therefore, until you provide a specific instance of Hezbollah using civilian shield tactics, such as putting women and children on the roofs of occupied buildings (like the Taliban do), you are wrong in that assertion.

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton until you provide a specific instance of Hezbollah using civilian shield tactics, such as putting women and children on the roofs of occupied buildings (like the Taliban do)

does this meet that criteria?



like almost to the letter, huh?

....youre welcome jerZ07002

EDIT> i know its Hamas in the West Bank and not Hezbollah in Lebanon. just making a point.

Last edited by Q5echo on Mar-10-2008 at 00:58

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton So what, are they supposed to operate only out in isolated fields? I don't think you understand the concept of "total war".

r u saying that Hebollah 2006 was fighting total war? i guess it could be argued they were? don't really know though. Israel never did.

my point being, how does claiming that even begin to legitimize their actions?