quote:

Originally posted by Vesa I think everybody who is inside enough in trance scene to know where to get those tracks, is already putting all their hard-earned (or even borrowed money) to vinyls/CDs. What are the "artists" expecting? Should trance fans commit a bank robbery to buy more of their tracks? I work at the university, and accept giving out intellectual material for a fixed salary. It's necessary that all information is accessible on www for free. It just doesn't work that you pay for 10% of material, and only know about 10% of things. You need to have complete access to information to really understand what's going on in science. It's the same thing with trance. I tried to avoid downloading stuff for two years in the beginning of my trance hobby. Then I realized I will never get to understand this music properly unless I get an overview of most stuff that is released. Getting to know the newest promos and unfinished tracks is essential to understanding where the music is going. I had a choice: I'll pay loads of money, and stay completely ignorant, or pay loads of money and get what I need from this music. Improvement of knowledge is more than linear: if you hear 10% of tracks (maximum that one can afford when buying stuff i.e. not downloading mp3s), you have a certain amount of knowledge about trance. If you know 50% of tracks, then you'll know 20 times more. Not 5 times more but 20 times more! That's because you understand each tune (sounds, stucture, where the track has taken its influences) so much better when hearing other tracks. The record companies are busy whining about illegal downloading of their material. Still they aren't doing much to stop it in a sensible way. Where can one find samples of their past and current tracks? I want to hear what kind of sounds/ideas different producers are using before buying very expensive vinyls/CDs. Therefore, I'll give huge credit to United Recordings www site, which has samples and even full-length tracks of all their released trance. I'm going to give preference to them when choosing vinyls because they have deserved it. On the contrary, some famous trance labels have released several compilations with erroneous tracklistings, even tracks from their own producers (like ITWT XTRA track 7). Of course, their fans can't search/buy/download more tracks from the producer if the name is erroneous. They are offering bad value for money, which encourages disappointed buyers to start downloading mp3s. I don't even get started about cheap commercial compilations which may not even mention what mixes of tracks are used. Like when Rank 1 - Airwave turned out to be ATB remix! Or VDM - Eternity Forever was really Club Caviar remix! I think some producers / labels have got unbelievably greedy. They get to travel the world, Ferraris and a long string of girls because of their fans who support their music. And still they are busy wanting more! For once, they could start thinking what their fans are getting out of their music. Do their fans get inside of this great music? Are they hearing enough tunes to understand it properly? It wouldn't be out of place to make an album, and distribute it for free as a way of saying thanks to their fans. Above all thanks are due to people who distribute trance on mp3 as a hobby, so that the artist gets promotion. If mp3s hadn't existed where would many of those producers be? Nowhere. I'm so pissed off by this newly found greediness that I would stop buying their vinyls altogether if I had been buying it (now I'm glad I specialize in older obscure trance). There are loads of quality underground tracks from producers who are still able to appreciate people want to hear their music on mp3. I suspect this is going to be a controversial post. Of course, I understand there is another side of coin, and producers have some reason to be unhappy. What I wrote above doesn't specifically apply to Airwave. He may be in a different situation, which gives him valid reasons to be upset.

Althought this might not be directly relating to the topic, I totally agree with you!!! I got nothing to add here!

quote:

On the contrary, some famous trance labels have released several compilations with erroneous tracklistings, even tracks from their own producers (like ITWT XTRA track 7). Of course, their fans can't search/buy/download more tracks from the producer if the name is erroneous. They are offering bad value for money, which encourages disappointed buyers to start downloading mp3s. I don't even get started about cheap commercial compilations which may not even mention what mixes of tracks are used. Like when Rank 1 - Airwave turned out to be ATB remix! Or VDM - Eternity Forever was really Club Caviar remix!

That's really demotivating to buy a cd (or having it). I mean you want to buy a cd because of the good lay-out, the contribution to the producer and a certain 'perfecness' around the cd. A cd is so much better when you've got the original case/booklet/cd than just a copy. But if they can't even bother to write the right titles on the booklet, what am I supposed to think of the effort the artist has given to the cd? For instance, I bought the cd 'Ferry Corsten - Live at Dance Valley 2001'. It has the song 'Such is life'from Rank 1 on it(Marco V Remix). The booklet says 'Such is li v', now everytime I see this cd that gets my attention. It might seem like a small detail, but for me it's a disappointment in the artist.


Oh yeah, 'bout the album of Airwave, half of the songs is so old, you can't expect that to be not on the net, i think ya'all know which songs I'm talking about.



Greetz,



Kamaya.

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quote:

Originally posted by verminator im 100% sure on that i wouldnt even have known about 3/4 of the dj's/producers i know of today if it wasnt for mp3's, and im not probably the only one. greetz

100% agree.

greetz

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The truth of the matter is that to a producer/DJ, releasing an album is simply one more step up the 'trance scene ladder'. Once you have an album you get videos, a tour, and now have something that the normies can buy out at HMV and MusicWorld.

Although I can imagine it being frustrating after slaving for countless days in the studio, the real money lies in the recognition of Airwave's name, and the subsequent DJ/Live bookings. Since MP3s give us an opportunity to hear how good Airwave is, I feel this helps his name and helps him get bookings.

Any promoter who has tried to book these artists knows how much they get. The only people this affects are those at Bonzai. As a CD-DJ who gets most of his tracks through mp3 because I can't get it anywhere else, I don't feel for them. If I could go to the Bonzai webpage, pick any track off the site and buy 192kbps mastered for MP3 versions of the tracks for a reasonable price (say 2$ per track) then I would LOVE to do it. No more hunting for full length versions, the right remix, etc. They make money and I stop getting harranged for labels not getting with the times.

Airwave is awesome, and L-Vee has a right to be pissed. But not at the people. How can someone be reasonably pissed because people WANT his music? He should be pissed that Bonzai isn't making it available properly. I wouldn't be able to BUY a copy of this cd for less than 27$. I'd have to import it and wait like 2 and a half weeks. I refuse to buy vinyl because it's a backwards medium. So what can I do?

Thoughts?
Ryan

I agree with what tu_face wrote.

Also, if tracks on his album are not finished yet and have been leaked, L-Vee has a right to be very angry. Those who stole them, and those who distribute and download them should be ashamed. Those are his artistic work, and he should be the one solely responsible for deciding when they should be released.

I myself have no problem sharing and downloading music that has been released. If I can hear it on the radio, I don't see anything wrong with hearing it my computer via an mp3. It's all the same. If it's good music, I'll go buy the vinyl or CD.

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quote:

Originally posted by Vesa On the contrary, some famous trance labels have released several compilations with erroneous tracklistings, even tracks from their own producers (like ITWT XTRA track 7). Of course, their fans can't search/buy/download more tracks from the producer if the name is erroneous.

What track is that really???? It's the one labeled Moontribe - Encore, right? Cause I bought the damn vinyl, and the track sounded nothing like it! And it wasn't nearly as good.

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Uncredible Haak - September 2008 mix

quote:

Originally posted by Spad Hrm maybe he should ask himself if he'd be as well-known if it wasn't for the mp3 scene. I bet his album sells more copies than it would have done otherwise.

EXACTLY. mp3 = fame
fame = sales
mp3 = sales

There can be no question that the continual conversion of his tracks to mp3 format increases the number of albums he will sell. I can understand how he might feel demotivated by seeing them available already, but what he doesn't understand is the extent to which the availablility of mp3s of his tracks contributes to his success as an artist.

First off, I do like Airwave, but this really bugs me. It's like biting the hand that feeds. Here's my rant:

1)As its been mentioned umpteen times, Airwave would not be anywhere near as popular w/out the MP3 scene. His fanbase would still be confined to western Europe clubgoers. To those who said "this is his livlihood"... He'd have a lot less $$ in his pocket without MP3's, that's for sure.

2) How does an unreleased album hit the net? especially something that sound like it isn't even finished. This means a) someone stole it or b) he's referring to radio rips.

3) If he's referring to radio rips... people have been recording things off the radio since the 70's... doen't seem to have hurt the industry so far, has it? Plus, what self-respecting file sharer settles for a RADIO RIP?!

4) What about those of us who don't own a turntable or who live in places like the States? It's not like I can just go pick up the new Airwave album at my local music store. People should not complain about file sharing if they are not making their music readily accessible to anyone who wants it.

Bottom line... it sounds like he realized, like many artists, that if every person who downloaded his music bought his music...he'd be rich. That's flawed reasoning though, not everyone's going to like your music, not everyone's going to feel it's worth the price of a CD, and if there wasn't MP3's, not many would have even heard the music in the first place. I'm surprised they're not going after record stores with listening stations... you never know, someone may listen to a disc and change their mind about buying it, hence, money lost.

i wrote a email to jurgen leyers when i saw what happened with airwave, here is the email

Jurgen Leyer's Response to my email, mine is below:

Hi Hadi,

Thanks a lot for the kind words! You're right, not too good news for Airwave. We've had loads of reactions so far... He will finish his project, no problems!

Have a good one,

Jurgen.


From: hadi
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:49:29 EDT
To: jurgen leyers
Subject: hey jurgen




hi jurgen
long time...yea i just wanted to say congratulations on the new single you have made with l vee, i was really pleased with both a and b side. I heard some bad news today when i was reading the www.trance.nu webpage, i heard all of the new tracks from l vee's airwave album are available to download adn he might not finish this album, i was wondering if you can ttell him for me that i reall yhope he can finish this album, because i loev his project airwave, and i really want to hear some new stuff from him. anyways, i hope some idiots didnt spoil what most people were really anticipating.
well, i just wanted to say hi again, and ill speak to later
bye
hadi


so there, no problems

whats up with airwave? i read that other thread and it made 0 sense

quote:

Originally posted by mindshooter If i download a album i do it cause i will buy it if its good...and im not the only one doing that...when will they wake up and see that me and all the ppl i know IRL would never have listened to trance if it wasnt for Mp3......

That was the best point ever made about trance. I say I owe EVERYTHING to mp3's if it wasn't for them I probably wouldn't be as addicted as I am.

quote:

Originally posted by djcresto Friends, colleagues and fans, today I was shocked to find out that all new tracks of my album are already downloadable on several servers. My album "Believe" is scheduled for release after summer..... only i don't know if I should proceed finishing it... This is really demotivating and it is jeopardising the future of all artists, record companies, publishing, advertising and many more related businesses. Airwave

As for the rest of that.....I say the tracks are probably all raido rips...so not that big of a deal. i mean it lets people listen to what they are going to buy (if they like it)
2nd you should finish it...by not doing so you're giving up ONE OF THE BEST JOBS IN THE WORLD just because you feel uninspired if thats the prob take a small break from the album. and lastly...the point of jeopardising the future artists i say thats crap, i mean without sharing music or being able to 'test' the product how do you know if you're going to like it? mark said from blink 182 when napster was in trouble...."our music sounds like shit, im glad people are listing to it for free." even though he made that point, people still buy their cds (i have 4 out of the 6 i think it is)

now here is the kicker....your music i enjoy. on the other hand all songs i have produced by 'airwave' are .mp3 without thoes how would i enjoy thoes songs whenever i wanted to?
so i finish war and peace to you djcresto by saying finish the album...be inspired by all the TA's who totally enjoy your work, and be happy that someone wants to DL your song because they enjoy it.

one more thing to add is look at it this way, you produce something people want...they dl it, they like it. job done. big name dj's spin it at some phucking awesome club/rave/party whatever. SOMEONE FALLS IN LOVE WITH IT. That to me (If i was in your position) would mean a lot more to me than worring about my music being dl'ed. the important thing is finding out how it got out there in the first place.

:TF:

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Last edited by TranceFusion on May-17-2002 at 05:17

this just goes to show that Airwave is in it for the money and not for the love of the music....and they also need to understand that if his precious album is as good as 'Airwave' expects it to be, then there is no need to worry about people not buying it. And yes, if it wasn't for mp3's I wouldn't be enjoying trance, so Airwave: go cry me a river.........
now I'm going to go find that new Airwave album due and download it

So fuck, Waste of thread, He was obviously going to finish.