quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN speak to tathi.

dammit all!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo there are several threads covering that. go fumble through them.

Whats wrong with this thread? He can talk anywhere he wants.

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quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo probably, but your sarcasm (if it was in fact sarcasm) was off 180 degrees in it's objectivity

No it wasn't, someone said they got their info from a film, and wanted to know more (but the film ended before they found out) so I told them they were lucky as another Che film had been made

The fact that I've had to explain the concept of sarcasm to you for over a page now, would suggest it's a concept you struggle to understand (which with you being American is hilarious in itself) so you'll forgive me if I take what you've written above to be bollox

quote:

Originally posted by Kinezi He can talk anywhere he wants.

technically, no he can't. i've been known to hi-jack many a thread, so whatever.

i don't care. if he wants to ramble on about retroactive telecom immunity or FISA, let him. i'm done with it and so are most Democrat lawmakers

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN LOL. americans and brits. they need an australian in the middle to translate

I think you're right. You guys are like the perfect bridge .

EDIT: I've got nothing against Brits, but for some reason they don't seem terribly fond of us and you Aussies are a lot more friendly, at least in my experience. I do like Brits and their sense of humor (a much more refined sarcastic style), and even how they take the piss out of American in standup comedy .

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Aug-13-2008 at 10:28

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley No it wasn't, someone said they got their info from a film, and wanted to know more (but the film ended before they found out) so I told them they were lucky as another Che film had been made

quite the historical revision there George. i'm bored so i'll go back over this with you.

Shakka just remarked he had seen the movie The Motorcycle Diaries but was confused as to why or when Guevara had become a fascist murdering cocksucker because all the movie is about, basically, is Ernesto and his buddy cruising around South America observing the widespread poverty and oppresion throughout his travels.

you came along with your plucky British "sarcasm" (still not buyin it) insulting:

quote:

Typical American, knows absolutely nothing unless Hollywood's done the film! Well you're a lucky boy cos one of the flag ship films at this year's Cannes Film Festival was a film about Che's revolutionary life (in two parts I think, one in Cuba and the other in S America) so keep an eye out for it!

when, in fact, The Motorcycle Diaries is not a Hollywood film. it's a Brazillian adaptation of Che Guevara's own memoirs of the roadtrip he took as a young man with his friend and a motorcycle.

you then proceeded to glowingly suggest an alternative which actually is a Hollywood film done in the typical Hollywood fashion a modern interpretation using second and third-hand accounts of someone who has been dead for over 40 years.

quote:

The fact that I've had to explain the concept of sarcasm to you for over a page now, would suggest it's a concept you struggle to understand (which with you being American is hilarious in itself) so you'll forgive me if I take what you've written above to be bollox

i understand sarcasm but yours is so cutting edge, so deep in it's twisting of the actual facts in it's effort to be insulting is truly awe inspiring.

Its interesting how rich Cubans exiled to Miami and their American nationalist counterparts believe Che was a ruthless, murdering dictator. And its also fascinating how we have the Cuban government and its faithful followers cannonising Che as if he was the embodiment of Christ himself. And you can't forget everyone in Latin America who believe Che left Cuba because he was so disgusted in the way Fidel wanted to run it. And of course there are all those poor Cubans i met who strongly believe Castro had Che and Camilo Cienfuegos killed off so he could consolidate the power in Cuba as only his own. (do a bit of research on this, you'll be surprised at how much "proof" their is to support this claim)

I have no doubt that in the next 50 years historians will still be arguing that their version of history is correct because of the "irrefutable proof" they have that Che was a murderer/saint/whatever

I have spent quite a bit of time traveling and living in South American countries (and time in Cuba too!) and I have seen what a symbol of hope Che is for people who have nothing. These are people suffering from economic slavery who live in shit while the rich live life like kings at their expense.

Whatever version of history resonates best with you i think we can all agree that Che achieved much more in death than he ever did in life. My feelings toward Che Guevara are still quite ambivalent (swaying towards him being a douche) but just because i think the man was a bit of a tosser i still believe in what his name stands for and the feelings of hope and inspiration it evokes in the downtrodden and destitute.

some interesting pics i took:

"your example leaves an irresistible force"

YOUTH MOVEMENT - until always commander


the only difference between the people who create the billboards in Cuba like this one above and the people who do the programming for Fox News is that one of those groups studied Marketing and Psychology at Harvard and get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars every year.

Last edited by tathi on Aug-13-2008 at 12:09

What are you trying to prove Q5? That people are trying to escape a third world country to a richer country? Shit who would have thought?

anyway i'm actually writing a book on Cuba now, i spent some time staying illegaly in the poorer sections of Havana with the guys who run the underground hip hop scene there. Hip Hop is great because they criticise the government and get away with it, this in a country where you can go to jail for that. But there is a real "Renaissance" of art, music, and culture happening in havana now, it started as a movement around the year 2000 and its grown and grown amongst the youth. "The country is falling apart and with all the problems the government is having keeping everything together they've left us alone to do our own thing. Tomorrow they may take me away because i don't vote or work but for now i´m free to do my art. It´s what I want to do."

here are some quotes of a guy i interviewed in Santa Clara. He works in the bakery 12 hours a day, he has to walk 1.5 hours to work and 1.5 hours home. He lives in a house the size of your room with a dirt floor with his wife and child. After all that work he has $4 a month left over. a bar of soap costs a dollar in cuba. Ironically this guy was named Ernesto after his parents Hero:

´In Cuba people with money don´t worry about the poor, just themselves. The people with the money don´t accept you and you just have to accept life the way it is, that you will never have money and live like them.´

´In a Capitalist system you got work you live, you don´t you die. Now with the Socialist system you always got work but thats not living, you only survive.'

´If you sleep what time can you spend with your family? You sleep your dead man. Your life is your life and any time free should be spent with what matters most.´

'When you say welcome to Cuba you say welcome to Hell my friend. Your body is a machine. Nothing left. Every day working. Can´t relax. Money for nothing.'

´Meat isn't important, thats material, not important, what´s important is to eat every day, not the quality of the food. Today I eat good but tomorrow what? What do I tell my family tomorrow?´


´My daughter tells me ¨When I'm a doctor Papa I'm not going to go overseas to work, I´ll stay here in Cuba because Cubans need me!" I believe in her.

its really sad

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo quite the historical revision there George. i'm bored so i'll go back over this with you.

"Hollywood" is a slang term for the entire film industry (obviously not to you tho). When "Hollywood" does something, it means dramatised on film. The term is especially used when this is where people get their "information" from. And when someone takes the piss out of someone for gettin info from a film, the precedes to extract further amounts of urine, by telling said person that a new film is coming out they can carry on their education from, that would usually be considered sarcasm by anyone with a gram of understanding of the concept...