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Don't you even bother to investigate the facts surrounding these issues, pkc, or do you just mindlessly repeat every bit of pro-EU, pro-New World Order, and/or pro-Socialist propaganda that you hear?
I mean, why should I even have to bother dignifying such a horrendously fallacious line of argumentation with a response?
I think it's been made rather clear that although the Irish people VOTED NO on the Lisbon Treaty that they still had to fight to prevent it from being shoved down their throats anyway!
| quote: | 'No bulldozing' Irish on EU vote
Miliband: 'No question of ignoring Irish vote'
David Miliband has said there is no question of "bulldozing" Ireland into voting again on the EU Treaty - but Britain will continue to ratify it.
The foreign secretary said it was right to "respect" the Irish decision - but also right to "take our own decision".
He said it was for the Irish PM to decide on his next move and whether to "apply the last rites" to the treaty.
Without the support of all 27 EU states it cannot become law. The Tories say Britain should vote on the treaty.
Mr Miliband told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "There is no question of bulldozing, or bamboozling or ignoring the Irish vote.
"We have got to wait for the Irish government to decide what they're going to do next."
"The rules are absolutely clear, if all 27 countries do not pass the Lisbon Treaty it cannot pass into law."
Parliamentary rules
But he said the EU (Amendment) Bill, which ratifies the Treaty in the UK Parliament, should continue through the Lords.
"It's right that we respect the Irish decision, but it's also right that we take our own decision - we're about 95% of the way through the Parliamentary process ... there's a final vote on Wednesday...
| quote: | "Let's treat this as a wake up call and stop this centralising agenda and abandon this treaty"
- William Hague, Shadow foreign secretary |
"Our decision must be for us, according the Parliamentary rules that we hold dear."
Asked whether he accepted that the treaty is dead, he said it was for the Irish PM to decide on his next move: "If you like he's got to decide whether or not to apply the last rites. We've got to listen to his analysis of what went wrong."
Mr Miliband said "one option" was to carry on with the old rules, without the treaty, which was designed to help the EU cope with its expansion into eastern Europe.
'Terrible muddle'
He said a "two tier" Europe, with some countries pressing ahead with greater integration and others being left behind was not something that was "in our interests or going to happen".
He added: "It's a bit messy at the moment, but let's work our way through it."
| quote: | "We should not just somehow airbrush out of history the Irish vote"
- Nick Clegg, Lib Dem leader |
But shadow foreign secretary William Hague told BBC One's The Politics Show: "The only point in other countries continuing to ratify the treaty is to put pressure on the Irish, to bully the Irish - a kind of preparatory move to saying to the Irish: 'You're going to have to vote again on this'."
He said: "Let's treat this as a wake-up call and stop this centralising agenda and abandon this treaty."
Earlier Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg, who supports the treaty, said it was now "highly unlikely" that it would ever be implemented.
"We should not just somehow airbrush out of history the Irish vote. I really hope that the European elites won't behave with the arrogance that a lot of people think they should," he told The Andrew Marr Show.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7455388.stm
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| quote: |
Stop the ratification process, says Hague
Shadow foreign secretary William Hague said the Government should now halt the ratification process in Britain in the light of the Irish vote.
"Alone in Europe they have had the chance to make their views known. If democracy in the EU is to mean anything their decision must be respected," he said.
"The British Government must respect the Irish people's verdict. Ratification of the Lisbon Treaty in Parliament must be stopped immediately."
He said that if Government still wanted to go ahead with ratification, it must now give people in Britain a say through a referendum.
"There are now no excuses left for denying the British people their say. So unless it is agreed that this Treaty is dead and buried it is essential that the British people have their say," he said.
"There is no justification for the Irish people being allowed their say while the British are denied theirs."
He added: "This is a great day for Britain and the peoples of Europe. Now is the time to end the old top-down Europe which the Irish have so decisively rejected. It is time to renew the European Union on respect for its people's wishes."
Sammy Wilson, the new Northern Ireland Environment Minister and DUP MP for East Antrim, welcomed the No vote.
"The people of the United Kingdom were not given the opportunity to have their say on the Lisbon Treaty, despite the fact that all parties had promised in their manifestos to hold a referendum.
"I have no doubt that if we were given the opportunity to have our say, the UK would have voted as the Republic of Ireland has. Unfortunately we were robbed of our promised chance to let Europe know what we actually think of this treaty."
The result sent a very strong message to leaders in Europe that the European Constitution was dead.
"It was firmly rejected by the French and Dutch and it was rejected by the Irish when it was disguised as the Lisbon Treaty. There now must be no attempt whatsoever to bring this failed constitution back in any format," said the MP.
He predicted EU leaders would try to resurrect the treaty by tweaking it enough so people would be fooled into thinking that it was a different document.
He pledged; "The DUP however will continue to oppose any attempt to undermine British sovereignty and the primacy of Parliament."
Liberal Democrat MEP Chris Davies said the European Union would "muddle on" despite the rejection,
"At its heart, the EU is simply a mechanism that allows 27 countries with shared values to work together. The process is slow, confused, and occasionally shambolic, but it is the best we have."
Mr Davies added: "The defeat of the constitution didn't destroy the EU and nor will this defeat of the treaty. When the fuss has died down Europe's government will still have to muddle on together and deal with the problems they face in common."
Fellow Liberal Democrat Andrew Duff said it was a "tragic outcome" for Ireland, the EU and Europe's place in the world: "The problems that this treaty address remain the same - democracy, efficiency and our capacity to act. The treaty is in the very best interests of all the member states.
"Brian Cowen will have some tough explaining to do next week at the EU summit. EU leaders should not delay a decision about how to tackle the problem. If a solution is to be found it needs to be done soon."
UKIP leader Nigel Farage said the only people to have a public voice on the treaty had "kicked it into the long grass".
He went on: "I suspect that the EU extremists will simply try to ignore it."
He said the process of the treaty through the House of Lords next week had now to be halted "because the project now has no legitimacy".
Tory peer Lord Tebbit commented: "Perhaps now both the European Union and the British Government will understand that wherever the Treaty or the constitution have been put to the people, the people have rejected it.
"For Britain to ratify the Treaty which has been rejected wherever people have been given their say would be a nonsense.
"If Brown wants to ratify the Treaty, despite the Irish vote, he should hold a referendum here, and as far as the EU is concerned, it should now understand that the people of Europe are not prepared to go farther and deeper into the process of creating a European state," he added.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...gue-846791.html |
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