I don't feel they spent enough time THINKING about what to do. They just rushed it out. In terms of a SOLUTION, this required some serious thought and contemplation. And, it needed the power of a visionary or visionaries - they need not be Harvard grads (from what we've seen, this may even work against them) - they could be a high school dropout for all I care. They just need to have a clear sight and vision of what needs to happen. They need to be a genius and come up with a genius, THOUGHT OUT plan. We did not get anything remotely close to it.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 I have no problem paying my fair share of taxes, but I don't want it lining the pockets of poor people.

Yeah that extra 25$ a week in unemployment benefits is really gonna line their pockets.

I do agree though that much more education spending is needed.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by delobbo I don't feel they spent enough time THINKING about what to do. They just rushed it out. In terms of a SOLUTION, this required some serious thought and contemplation. And, it needed the power of a visionary or visionaries - they need not be Harvard grads (from what we've seen, this may even work against them) - they could be a high school dropout for all I care. They just need to have a clear sight and vision of what needs to happen. They need to be a genius and come up with a genius, THOUGHT OUT plan. We did not get anything remotely close to it.

Did you read the stimuls bill?

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Clovis Did you read the stimuls bill?

no. but i watch / read news. does the news have it wrong?

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Originally posted by delobbo I feel his announcements over the past weeks HAVE indirectly resulted in market dives. I feel if he had made different choices, the markets would have reacted positively. I am not happy about this.

This isn't completely true.

The way I see it he's just being honest about what's been going on for years. The markets have just been in denial for the whole time. Now that the President is actually trying to get things right they have to admit how shitty the American economy has been for about a decade, maybe two.

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

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Originally posted by delobbo no. but i watch / read news. does the news have it wrong?

I don't know I haven't read the 450 pages yet. You should though, it's your country not mine.

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Originally posted by atbell This isn't completely true. The way I see it he's just being honest about what's been going on for years. The markets have just been in denial for the whole time. Now that the President is actually trying to get things right they have to admit how shitty the American economy has been for about a decade, maybe two. The first step is admitting you have a problem.

I see where you are coming from. It's too bad we will never know what could have happened.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 I fear obama is taking us down a terrible path, even though not as bad as bush. While I agree there is a need for some sort of stimulus, the administration has it all wrong. The plan is too heavy on temporary tax relief and current economic stimulus without the necessary future growth prospects (i.e., not enough spending on future growth projects). His plan is full of incentives that don't promote the right kind of behaviors. Those who work hard are not only not being rewarded, but are also being slightly punished. I have no problem paying my fair share of taxes, but I don't want it lining the pockets of poor people. I would rather have it building schools, or funding the education of the children of the poor. While helpful to the recipient, a direct check is unproductive for society. With all that said, the future inflationary pressure is going to kill those who obama is trying to help most (the poor). The poor are the class of people who are hurt the most by inflation because their wages are least likely to keep pace with inflation. My wages (scratch that - my salary) should keep pace, so I'll likely benefit from inflation (reducing the real dollar cost of loans, and considering i don't have substantial savings at this early point in my life). It's too bad people are so short-sighted.

I find that we agree more and more on things economic.

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Originally posted by delobbo I don't feel they spent enough time THINKING about what to do. They just rushed it out. In terms of a SOLUTION, this required some serious thought and contemplation. And, it needed the power of a visionary or visionaries - they need not be Harvard grads (from what we've seen, this may even work against them) - they could be a high school dropout for all I care. They just need to have a clear sight and vision of what needs to happen. They need to be a genius and come up with a genius, THOUGHT OUT plan. We did not get anything remotely close to it.

The problem is that the time needed to think, read and study is just simply not there. Trying to come up with a well thought out plan would take YEARS of careful study and probably as much time debating to get it sorted out.

What NEEDED (past tense) to be done was for people to have accepted the mistakes and problems back in Nov. 2004. There were piles of logical arguments around and many people who were exactly right about what was going on in the US, they were all ridiculed.

Just look back at some of the posts in this forum, for the most part the problems were well identified but no one wanted to spend any money or time to actually study any of this. (as far as I can tell).

An army of graduate economic students might have been a good idea years ago, now I think it's too late. Oh, and the graduate programs should be self directed, not under the supervision of Profs who studied what they were paid to study and not what needed to be studied.

Obama is burying the country and yet the far left fails to acknowledge the catastrophic actions of their messiah. He has shown he is nothing more just like any other far left politician in Washington. As Rush said" if he plans to implement a far left agenda, I hope he fails"

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Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

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Originally posted by delobbo no. but i watch / read news. does the news have it wrong?

They are extremely short on specifics. I don't know how anyone can have a reasonable opinion on what the stimuls bill entails without reading at least the detailed summary offered by congress.

I've read the first half and skimmed through the rest and have been following an excellent blog by Steve Coll on the stimulus:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/stevecoll/?xrail


I don't really know how you can say one of the biggest investments in this country in years is not "visionary".

This isn't 800 billion going out the door just to keep banks from failing. We're actually going to see a ton of benefits from this.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Shakka I find that we agree more and more on things economic.

I went to business school (specializing in finance) before law school. I spent a good part of a year reading milton friedman.

Generally, I believe free markets will always have the right answer (with the caveat that there is sufficient transparency in the market); the relevant question is whether we, as a society, are willing to go through the pain that free markets can impose during a period of correction. It's probably the healthiest in the long term to allow free market corrections, however, people are very short-sighted and considering many people live pay-check to pay-check it can be quite difficult to expect the general population to by into the idea that free market corrections are better than government intervention. As a human being, I am sypathetic to the general welfare needs of people who aren't as fortunate as myself. So, I am willing to accept government intervention (if for no other reason than to prevent people from resorting to crime to feed their families).