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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > Does more oscillators = better sound? *sample included*
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Theran
One virus 2 rule them all



Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Far Far Away

LOL, as a long time Cubase user, I have to shed my light on this discussion.

First of all, Crono, you are PM-ing me with all these questions about Cubase (which I don't mind because I told you you can do that), but you are pretty much making an ass out of yourself here going into an indepth discussion over a program you barely know.

First of all, the freeze function in Cubase reaaaally sucks alot. When you freeze a track, there's nothing you can do with it. Saying you don't have to move it inside a track is crap, everybody changes there arrangement all the time, so you have to unfreeze it anytime you want to do something with it.

Working with wav files is much easier, it almost gives you all the freedom you need. You can drag it accros the sequencer, and yes you can put effects on them. You can even use a cut-off by easily aplying a filter on the channel and automate it. I work a lot with wav files, I have some external hardware which I record into cubase and apply effects after that it's really easy to do.

And Crono, if your leads taking up 70% of your CPU, you have to figure out if there's an easier way to do it. Freezing VSTi's still takes up some CPU (although they say it won't, I know it does). If you have a pretty fast harddrive, wav files take less CPU than freezing. It's really a myth that you need to stack a lot of synths together to get this great lead. 1 synth can do that as well, just know how to use it. I almost never layer synths for my leads, and if I do, it'll be a maximum of 2. The more synths you use, the more you got to EQ to let them sit right in your mix, so the less space is there for other sounds to cut through.

Also, I noticed you are producing hardstyle, and you are really fond of the Z3ta+ (which I understand ). But do bare in mind that the Z3ta+ is a huge CPU hog, so maybe you should try another synth that eats less CPU. You can try to use the Vanguard, it is great for those hardstyle sounds, yes it can eat a lot of CPU as well, but just pull down the voices of the synth, the more voices, the more CPU.

To conclude, the freezing function in Cubase SUCKS BIGTIME!


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Old Post Apr-02-2009 08:35  Netherlands
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cronodevir
Me.



Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Bum Fuck Nowhere

Then I guess I like using sucky features. From experience, using freeze mode does what I need better than spending an hour swapping wavs and stuff. And no, I don't change the arrangement. Ive been dealing with DAWs and production since 2000 I'm able to tell what tools and methods benefit me more than others, as far as using wav files, that is a very last resort.

Lets say I do it the wav file method. I spend 30 minutes setting up the vsti, render the part as wav, then delete the vsti and all its settings and thus all the automation, everything. Then load a new audio track, fiddle with the 'pool' buisness for a few minutes, browsing all over for the wav file [cubase likes to default to documents and settings, for who knows what reason.]...spend a few minutes listening and decide I want a square lead instead of saw...guess what, i have to delete the audio track reload the synth and redo all the midinotes all the automation and all the parameters. Thats an hour and 10 minutes worth of work, plus each time I do that there is a new 100mb wav on my drive that I have to go delete......or I can hit freeze and spend 4 minutes waiting. Lets assume the wav method is 70 Minutes. And freeze mode is 5 minutes. I can change via freeze/unfreeze the arrangement 14 times, before I can change the arrangement via wav files once...

And that is not counting the mixer work. When i switch to the audio track all mixer information is lost, so I have to redo all the FX and mastering done to that channel...thats another 20 minutes. AND after setting up the vsti and everything again, I still have to render it as a wav, delete everything I just set up, and load an audio track and do all that wav stuff again. So to make two changes to the arrangment or synth, requires two hours of work.

That is what working with wavs is like. That is my experience with it. And that is only one instance of one synth.

You find a way to make it faster then sure, the wav method will actually be viable, but now, its unrealistic for how I do music. I really don't know what the big deal is. Freeze mode is useful because it does ALL of that shit i jsut mentioned, automatically, and it takes a couple seconds. Couple minutes on big stuff. Even with the inability to alter the arrangement, freezing/unfreezing is still way faster.

You guys are the first people Ive ever met that use wav files regularly. Lol


___________________
i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist

Last edited by cronodevir on Apr-02-2009 at 10:41

Old Post Apr-02-2009 10:01  United States
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G-Con
aka Greg Nicot



Registered: Jun 2006
Location: England

quote:
Originally posted by cronodevir
Then I guess I like using sucky features. From experience, using freeze mode does what I need better than spending an hour swapping wavs and stuff. And no, I don't change the arrangement. Ive been dealing with DAWs and production since 2000 I'm able to tell what tools and methods benefit me more than others, as far as using wav files, that is a very last resort.

Lets say I do it the wav file method. I spend 30 minutes setting up the vsti, render the part as wav, then delete the vsti and all its settings and thus all the automation, everything. Then load a new audio track, fiddle with the 'pool' buisness for a few minutes, browsing all over for the wav file [cubase likes to default to documents and settings, for who knows what reason.]...spend a few minutes listening and decide I want a square lead instead of saw...guess what, i have to delete the audio track reload the synth and redo all the midinotes all the automation and all the parameters. Thats an hour and 10 minutes worth of work, plus each time I do that there is a new 100mb wav on my drive that I have to go delete......or I can hit freeze and spend 4 minutes waiting. Lets assume the wav method is 70 Minutes. And freeze mode is 5 minutes. I can change via freeze/unfreeze the arrangement 14 times, before I can change the arrangement via wav files once...

And that is not counting the mixer work. When i switch to the audio track all mixer information is lost, so I have to redo all the FX and mastering done to that channel...thats another 20 minutes. AND after setting up the vsti and everything again, I still have to render it as a wav, delete everything I just set up, and load an audio track and do all that wav stuff again. So to make two changes to the arrangment or synth, requires two hours of work.

That is what working with wavs is like. That is my experience with it. And that is only one instance of one synth.

You find a way to make it faster then sure, the wav method will actually be viable, but now, its unrealistic for how I do music. I really don't know what the big deal is. Freeze mode is useful because it does ALL of that shit i jsut mentioned, automatically, and it takes a couple seconds. Couple minutes on big stuff. Even with the inability to alter the arrangement, freezing/unfreezing is still way faster.

You guys are the first people Ive ever met that use wav files regularly. Lol


Seriously, could you shut the fuck up.

There is no right or wrong as to whether to freeze tracks or bounce them down. Its purely a work flow thing, will make no difference to the outcome of the sound so its personal preference of whatever works for you.

However, you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about. Every post you've made in this thread, you've said something completely incorrect, you don't have the first idea of how bouncing down works, the above post proves that no end. I'm not even gonna bother wastin my time highlighting all the bullshit points you've made and correcting them for you.

Just pick up your computer, take it to the window and throw it out. Then throw yourself out the window while you're at it aswell.


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Old Post Apr-02-2009 12:20  United Kingdom
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cronodevir
Me.



Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Bum Fuck Nowhere

I never said one way was better than the other, I said I prefer it one way, and they started to complain. You will have to talk to Diginut about that.

As for bouncing the tracks, I'm sure I did get some of it wrong. I don't usually waste time using audio files. In FLStudio I never hit the CPU limit so it wasn't an issue. In cubase however, it becomes an issue. The process I mentioned in my last post is exactly how I did it in FL way back when I started using it, it was very ineffective. If its a crappy way, then enlighten me.

If your not going to contribute anything, then don't post. I may look like an ass at times for not knowing how something works, but you and Digitnut are trolling. So you tell me what is worse.

I'm not posting here anymore. Because this thread has gotten waaay off topic.


___________________
i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist

Last edited by cronodevir on Apr-02-2009 at 18:42

Old Post Apr-02-2009 18:25  United States
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DJ Robby Rox
Longterm Newbie



Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Tiestoland

quote:
Originally posted by cronodevir
FLStudio is a pain in the ass to produce on, all this loop based stuff is a big no-no.


I get beats laid out in FL Studio quicker than any other program.
And loop based music production is a staple of EDM. Saying its a no-no is like saying you shouldn't boil an egg with hot water, impossible and doesn't exactly make any sense.


___________________
Sequencers: FL Studio 9XXL & Reason 3.
Main Synth Bass GTs - Pro-53, V-Station, Sytrus, Subtractor, Trilian, Blue, Sylenth & Z3ta.
Main Synth Lead/Pad GTs - Z3ta, Sytrus, Sylenth, Vangard, Albino & Nexus.
Main FXs GTs - Waves Plugins, Soundtoys, Volcano, FL Native FX.
Hardware - Truths, Echo Audiofire, Virus Snow, & Novation Xio Midi-Synth.

Old Post Apr-03-2009 16:21  South Africa
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Nemesis44
ZZZZZzzzzzz.....



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Brighton

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox
Saying its a no-no is like saying you shouldn't boil an egg with hot water, impossible and doesn't exactly make any sense.


Don't know about you but I boil my eggs in vodka!!

:P

Nem


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Old Post Apr-03-2009 22:40  United Kingdom
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TranceAddict Forums > DJing / Production / Promotion > Production Studio > Does more oscillators = better sound? *sample included*
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