quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Most likely yes. There is loads of situations, but the main guy is the guy not paying for it because he doesnt have to

Proof?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by derail All the software (and hardware, obviously) in my studio is legit. I don't use anything I haven't paid for. Cronodevir, some of your rationalisations are deplorable - that software is "simply 1s and 0s", that the value isn't diminished by someone downloading a pirate copy rather than paying for it. What do you do for a living? Do you like getting paid for it? Why do you think the programmers, who spend years of their lives learning how to program, developing excellent music software, and keep improving it so we have better and better tools to use - why do you think these programmers don't deserve to get paid? A lot of software companies are not large faceless corporations who make billions by overcharging for products. Some of them are small teams of people who'd like to spend their time giving us fantastic tools. Your view is extremely short-sighted. The more people buy products, the more companies will realise there's money to be made - improvements will come faster, more companies will develop products, our lives as artists will get better! I think using cracked software for preview purposes is fine - it's good to get a sense of what the product is offering overall before making a purchase decision. I'll usually buy something very soon after trying it out. My basic rule is, all the tools used in my songs that anyone else gets to hear are legit, are paid for. No-one but me hears my "software trial" songs.

Good Post...I agree 100%

@Subtle

You could always look to open source. Because for the artist, those "pros and cons" you mentioned, neither are relevant. Same with a lot of open projects. Right now you have open source software equivalent to Cubase 2 or FLStudio 6...and most of that progress was made in less time it actually took for FL or Cubase to get to version 6 or 2.

I mean if you want to talk about long run, and what is most beneficial to the user, neither plan you mentioned Subtle will be relevant to the user. They aren't relevant now. Most people when they use a program they don't care if the company that made it is doing good in sales or exposure.

Subtle you are looking at piracy from the stand point of the developer. But the users don't care about the developer.

@deral

Moral of software development story? Don't put so much effort into something if you care that people will "undermine" it.

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i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Proof?

It is just human nature, if we can get something for free and get away with it, you can bet your ass that the majority of people will do exactly that!

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Originally posted by Subtle It is just human nature, if we can get something for free and get away with it, you can bet your ass that the majority of people will do exactly that!

Except you can't equate that to stealing.

Because if you put a large chunk of merchandise on a shelf and leave it there unwatched, most people won't steal it, because they know stealing is wrong. And according to most, and what the reality really is, is that downloading software isn't stealing, so people do download. And its like you said, you cannot change human nature.

___________________
i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist

because the risk outweighs the benifit

that is pretty much the determining factor.

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle It is just human nature, if we can get something for free and get away with it, you can bet your ass that the majority of people will do exactly that!

Would you steal 5k from your parents?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by cronodevir @Subtle You could always look to open source. Because for the artist, those "pros and cons" you mentioned, neither are relevant. Same with a lot of open projects. Right now you have open source software equivalent to Cubase 2 or FLStudio 6...and most of that progress was made in less time it actually took for FL or Cubase to get to version 6 or 2. I mean if you want to talk about long run, and what is most beneficial to the user, neither plan you mentioned Subtle will be relevant to the user. They aren't relevant now. Most people when they use a program they don't care if the company that made it is doing good in sales or exposure. Subtle you are looking at piracy from the stand point of the developer. But the users don't care about the developer.

I know that, what the users want is everything as good as possible, for as little as possible.
That is true in any case.

There are tons of open source programs and free music software etc etc... that works so well than you essentially dont need anything else.

But the truth is that the companies that needs to earn money, and does earn money on software are the ones coming up with the best features, support and functionality.. and we humans want to use the best tools we possibly can!

And not to mention inventing new technology, and that costs money.

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Originally posted by Beatflux Would you steal 5k from your parents?

No, i would not.
And i hardly think i could get away with it if i did, besides it is not the same thing.

If you could copy your neighbors Ferrari without him knowing would you do it ?

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Originally posted by Subtle I know that, what the users want is everything as good as possible, for as little as possible. That is true in any case. There are tons of open source programs and free music software etc etc... that works so well than you essentially dont need anything else. But the truth is that the companies that needs to earn money, and does earn money on software are the ones coming up with the best features, support and functionality.. and we humans want to use the best tools we possibly can! And not to mention inventing new technology, and that costs money.

Sure, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that its hard to make money on software. And what about if it gets to the point where open source is the leader in technology and such?

As for copy protection, it is the best way for a proprietary company to make money, but the amount of protection directly correlates to to the average users willingness to use said program. I mean Spore had a very "lite" version of what big industry has planned for us in the future in terms of software protection. And people couldn't stand that, so do you think down the line when [and they likely will] protection gets more draconian that it will continue to benefit? ...and compete with each other? ...and compete with open source?

All proprietary software really has going for itself is its reputation, the propaganda for itself and against open source, and compatibility. What else is there..really?

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Originally posted by Subtle No, i would not. And i hardly think i could get away with it if i did, besides it is not the same thing. If you could copy your neighbors Ferrari without him knowing would you do it ?

If you seen your neighbor building a fence, would you copy his design?

Because that is what "intellectual property" is...its a diagram on how to do something. A piece of information that tells your hardware to do a set of tasks. It isn't an object. Code is no more an object than a thought you had. If someone copies your code, you lost nothing of tangibility. You didn't loose a potential sale, because as you said it, people download because they can for free. If they couldn't have downloaded it for free, they most likely wouldn't have looked into the product anyways and moved to another product that does the same thing.

I'm still waiting for someone to justify copyright in the first place to be honest, much less "copyright infringement"

___________________
i'm the alchemist without the cyst without a doubt out of the mist
dig out the grout expose the pest to take it out without the rest

they will attest my patients restorations from the best

i'm from the west i'm not an acmeist only the alchemist

Last edited by cronodevir on Apr-28-2009 at 23:12

quote:

Originally posted by cronodevir Sure, but it is becoming increasingly obvious that its hard to make money on software. And what about if it gets to the point where open source is the leader in technology and such?

If that would happen yes. But software that costs money, cost money exactly because they are the leaders in technology.

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