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Originally posted by ******** Not your feelings - before your feelings. People can feel all sorts of things, it is not that you have the feelings it is what spurs them. It is like a sense before your feeling. Part of the issue of feelings if you are empathic - they arn't really your feelings they are latent energy which you are sensing. How you feel can be a direct effect of the point of reference of your sense of the energy field. It depends how you sense it but where it is at is what directs the point of sense. That is your consciousness. It is something that can be perceived, and it is a gate. Your feelings arn't deceiving you feelings aren't truth or lies, they are communication. There is only truth in the world if you look from the right direction, likewise there is only lies if your mind rejects them. There is no "real" basis to reality other than the one you believe or the one that is created for you. Much like science is a creation - reality is a creation - however so real that our humanistic senses readily interact. Scientifically it is weird because it is energy field interactions. The physics of things can be very weird if you think about how the physics actually work. Like the stuff we see is a reflection and the stuff energy interactions. We hear a lattice that we are physically connected with through energy matter interactions. We see by energy relay - and we interact by field variance. We smell by matter energy entering our bodies, likewise taste. Essentially out humanistic senses are no so much what is in the world.. but what has entered us or is on the edge of our energy field. We are essentially our point of reference - the real world is completely unique to individual perspective. However internally - we have the ability to will occurrence by creating it within our consciousness - in this same way either we are stimulus response or capable of introducing thought energy into our focal field. Not only this but much like we can direct our physical energy we can also direct our other senses to objects to create artifacts of our own thought. I think that the way of psychic or magik is like that - however for most this just isn't required because a technological way of thinking is sufficient for the needs. But there is so much more when you can look at art or hold your thoughts in an artifact - even if it is as simple as writing a mnemonic device. This is not wholely based on cultural indoctrination, but I firmly beleive there to be a natural law of sorts to projection of energy to create imbeded sentiment in reality. Back to creationism - even science has a foundation - there gets to a point where the foundation is what is accepted. While I'm not a bible creationist per se, I am a universalist - that there is a perspective of truth to all things. Perhaps a bit more like the grand architect in masonic tradition - more so I am someone who has a beleif in all religion in the way that it is a tradition that teaches and instructs.. for me reality is "created" not was created. There is no real time other than what exists in memory or beleif. Now is forever.

That was actually quite painful to read, about on the same level as sticking a fork in the eye i believe. But since belief means little im going to go now and do that experiment. See you later (or not as the case may be, in science the result must be repetable and ive only got so many eyes available)

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles It's approximately correct, if you change that to 10,000 years. According to an old Nat Geo article that is no longer online:

As much as I would like to laugh at more stupid Americans here, I have to admit that those phone polls are usually biased. Rarely are the questions truly impartial and the results are often skewed.

Unless the format was 'how old do you think the Earth is?' and the respondents could answer in any way they wished, I doubt that the results are accurate.

Also, as you yanks are so apt to point out, certain sections of your country are more religious and/or stupid than others, meaning that if this phone poll was conducted in such an area, the results would again be misleading.

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I have to agree with that. I have issues with polls that say "according to our poll of x people, y% of those people think this, z& think that..." while the number x is never higher than a couple of thousand. To me that doesnt include nearly enough people for accurate representation of a country with population of over 300 million. Especially since the poll will significantly differ according to where and when its taken.

Then again regarding the question about the age of the earth i think its hard to word it so that it would confuse a large percentage of people as to what the question is. Seriously, how can you ask if someone thinks if earth is older or younger than 10.000 years in a way that will confuse a supposedly grown and one would hope educated adult thats being poled.


Then again the probability that the only people actually answering polls over the phone are bored old people who have nothing else to do, and college students that are too high on weed to get their ass up from bed and to the classroom.

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If the randomization procedure is sufficiently robust, the results should be fairly accurate with a sample of much less than a few hundred thousand, although as you mention there is the problem of mostly older people answering the phone -- and their being more willing to answer polls.

If I still had access to the GSS I would check the poll against those results. Anyone have access to it?

trust me the statistic isnt very off. Considering evolution isn't taught properly in most highschools and people don't touch on it really in most college courses i can see it being overlooked. Where are you going to learn about it if you're not taught at a young age. Also most people can't be bothered to read up on it. Especially with shows like survivor and american idol to please their attention span, there is no room for national geographic.

edit: also think about this.

Why would anyone want to go out of their way to find discrepencies in their religious teachings which have been passed on for several generations.

The motivation, or lack there of, supports that statistic.

Last edited by Nrg2Nfinit on Aug-24-2009 at 02:24

i agree, the poll might have been biased but i don't think that the accuracy is that far off. you'd be surprised to know how many people truly believe the earth is 10,000 years old. some people are willing to believe even the most ridiculous things like mr.x is the messiah and we should worship him.. i was watching this today on Nat Geo..

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/0....leader.arrest/

i was watching how the people had complete devotion to him despite the fact that none of his prophecies came true and he slept with all the women and was charged on 4 accounts of sexual abuse, including a minor.

GOD would tell him to have rituals with 7 virgins.. and to have sex with the mens wives.. funny thing is this guy was able to become this sect leader and brainwash everyone to get his own desires met.. and his prior life showed his mother died when he really young, and later as a kid he was kidnapped and molested.. no shit he turned out to be a perverted psycho.

it was shocking to see how gullible people are- if you TRY showing them a different perspective, they refuse even just listening or trying to understand your point of view.

so really, all the people that are born into a religious family, i don't blame them for sticking to their beliefs.. they haven't seen anything else and reading/learning about new perspectives takes getting out of their comfort zone, which some people aren't willing to do..

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Posted by Omega_Blue that's it, fuck it i'm quitting ta forever. fuck if i'm gonna get trolled by fucking yukii. dammit!

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Originally posted by yukii i agree, the poll might have been biased but i don't think that the accuracy is that far off. you'd be surprised to know how many people truly believe the earth is 10,000 years old. some people are willing to believe even the most ridiculous things like mr.x is the messiah and we should worship him.. i was watching this today on Nat Geo.. http://edition.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/0....leader.arrest/ i was watching how the people had complete devotion to him despite the fact that none of his prophecies came true and he slept with all the women and was charged on 4 accounts of sexual abuse, including a minor. GOD would tell him to have rituals with 7 virgins.. and to have sex with the mens wives.. funny thing is this guy was able to become this sect leader and brainwash everyone to get his own desires met.. and his prior life showed his mother died when he really young, and later as a kid he was kidnapped and molested.. no shit he turned out to be a perverted psycho. it was shocking to see how gullible people are- if you TRY showing them a different perspective, they refuse even just listening or trying to understand your point of view. so really, all the people that are born into a religious family, i don't blame them for sticking to their beliefs.. they haven't seen anything else and reading/learning about new perspectives takes getting out of their comfort zone, which some people aren't willing to do..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Manson

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yep. i saw that guy too.

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Posted by Omega_Blue that's it, fuck it i'm quitting ta forever. fuck if i'm gonna get trolled by fucking yukii. dammit!

Haha lol. Check this out. This is fun. He gives reasoning for evolution then makes false claims that there isn't enough evidence.


I like how he almost says different species of dogs then he halts. Don't want to confuse creationists with semantics do we now.

Different species of dogs, lol, dogs and wolfs aren't even genetically dissimilar at all, let alone dogs and dogs.

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Originally posted by iTranscendence Different species of dogs, lol, dogs and wolfs aren't even genetically dissimilar at all, let alone dogs and dogs.

of course there is obviously some genetic differences and amplified genes through selective breeding. The point is that there are huge phenotype differences in their traits (compare a chiwawa to a sheppard) which translates into macro evolution in the long term.

think about this...

If we are able to selectively breed dogs and create a vast difference in breeds through selectivity in such a short time, how is it so unbelievable to postulate that over 300 million years the environment could shape and isolate traits to create gradual phenotypic differences which after that much time would culminate into our different phyla and millions of characterized species.

don't think thats too much of a crap shoot.