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if it were up to obama, this country would be back on the right course. but that's a big if... everyone knows it's congress who decides if progress is going to occur and congress is a monumental clusterfuck of corporate puppets.

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Originally posted by EgosXII a lot of this is complete bullshit, or at least just propoganda. you're making the US sound like an underdog: the poor guys who don't have a treaty like the EU? aww and it's a roll they took after WWII simply because of paranoia and complete lies. The whole cold war was the US spreading their empirialist regime... I don't mean this in a kind of socialist way, but it literally was. The Russians were never a threat to the US on ANY level at all, yet the US fought them on every ground imaginable, the russians lost everything during the war. the fact that the US was the only state to come out off WWII richer than when it went in says enough, let alone all the people, money, infastructure and intelligence the russians didn't have, yet US claimed they did... it was one of the now standard irrational and terrorist moves that the US pulled on their own people... Look at all the shit that the citizens of the US had to deal with because of the fabricated threat that the russians claimed to have posed... also: how is the US not involved in NATO? they've used them as a puppet to justify their invasions on a number of occasions.. It is entirely the US' choice not to be a part of things similar to the EU. You think the arrogant, and all powerful Titan would EVER limit their power by getting involved in a transnational corporation?? LOL look at how they treat the UN... yeah they're very open to other states... also, don't scapegoat bush. He did a terrible job, but the international (and especially military) policy of the last handful of presidents has been ridiculous and led to a number of unecessarily and legally questionable (or downright illegal) wars. once again, this is the fault of the US, not just one individual, or figurehead and doesn't make the state and nation as a whole somehow guilt-free... the idea that they had to compete was created by them, and also is a joke since they have been the only ones with any significant power since the end of WWII... saying there was any competition to speak of in real threat terms is silly. The us SHOULD cut back. It's the bloated arrogance that has controlled the world since WWII, and caused numerous unecessary and terrible consequences. i think it's pretty ridiculous you make the US sound like the underdog, like they're fighting the good fight for the whole world, and are supremely democratic, and representative of the world... ridiculous. it's this mentality which will finally catch up to them in the next 50 years when we will see the fall of the great empire... i can already hear the 'barbarians' banging on the gates... too much talk, no reform. the world's in flux, the US is stagnant and horribly idealistic.

You're an idiot. Where did I describe the US as an underdog? I said they will be if they don't shape up and figure out a way to pay for the large military presence they have all over the globe when the rest of the place goes to shit.



And Kevin, I spend a lot of time with the Scandinavian TA's here. They don't consider the US to have an equal standard of living, they consider it to have a significantly lower standard of living. I am not talking 3rd world shit hole standard, but compared to their standard of living they would not trade it for that of the US, even if its cheaper.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby And Kevin, I spend a lot of time with the Scandinavian TA's here. They don't consider the US to have an equal standard of living, they consider it to have a significantly lower standard of living. I am not talking 3rd world shit hole standard, but compared to their standard of living they would not trade it for that of the US, even if its cheaper.

I'd have to agree on that one. I wouldn't mind if things were a little cheaper here, or if we had a few more things available to us, but I certainly wouldn't trade it in.

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Originally posted by The17sss Yeah... and what? You think they pay $2.40/gallon of gas there? The cost of living in Stockholm or Oslo or Helsinki is a lot higher than most places here.

As are wages. And employment rates.

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I'm no economist, but it's a stone cold fact that tax cuts spur economic activity, which lead to more money going to the government. Bush's tax cuts sent more tax dollars to the federal government than EVER. Unfortunately, much of that was grossly mismanaged.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=165
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/20...-cut-mythology/
http://www.epi.org/economic_snapsho...shots_20070829/
http://www.factcheck.org/taxes/supply-side_spin.html

From Factcheck:

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Sen. John McCain has said President Bush's tax cuts have increased federal revenues. But revenues would have been even higher without them.

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Watched it live yesterday as well, (waiting for the semi's of the australian open, go Henin ). He certainly is a good speaker but I am affraid since it is an election year, not many of his proposals are going to be passed.
A shame for the US though, since they would have been the only Western country able to compete with China & India in the future.
On a sidenote, I do find it "funny" how America's public opinion is being influenced when it comes to public health insurance. A nation claiming to remain the number one country on so many domains, unable to provide for its occupants. I believe most Europeans don't really understand this last paradox and all the fuzz about Obama's health care plan.

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Originally posted by The17sss You need to spend some time in the real world man. Just sayin'

Actually, it is you and the rest of the reform opponents who needs to step out of their insulated upper middle class lifestyle and look around you. It is those like you who impede reform because they adopt a Darwinian attitude towards their fellow Americans, ignorance of the real world, or reform affects your way of life and your profit$.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov

You lost me when you quoted (former Enron advisor) Krugman... I have no idea why you hold him up on the higest of pedistals.

And on quoting McCain.

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Originally posted by Scottaculous Actually, it is you and the rest of the reform opponents who needs to step out of their insulated upper middle class lifestyle and look around you. It is those like you who impede reform because they adopt a Darwinian attitude towards their fellow Americans, ignorance of the real world, or reform affects your way of life and your profit$.

lol... you know nothing about me. I feel the way I do because of where I come from, and real world experience. Stop assuming I've had silver spoon up my ass my whole life and "can't relate to the downtrodden" or whatever crock of shit you've drawn up about me. My family has never had money, until about 5 years ago. My parents did just enough to get by until they were in their 50's, and years of hard work finally paid off. I busted my ass through school and worked hard to build a business from nothing with my dad. When you work hard for what you have, and succeed, it's pretty discouraging when your achievement is targeted to appease the growing masses who don't have the discipline to sacrifice, and expect the achievers to incrementally fund more and more of their entitlement dreams. It is you that has the ignorance; one day if you ever sign the front of the check and not the back, you'll understand.

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Originally posted by The17sss lol... you know nothing about me. I feel the way I do because of where I come from, and real world experience. Stop assuming I've had silver spoon up my ass my whole life and "can't relate to the downtrodden" or whatever crock of shit you've drawn up about me. My family has never had money, until about 5 years ago. My parents did just enough to get by until they were in their 50's, and years of hard work finally paid off. I busted my ass through school and worked hard to build a business from nothing with my dad. When you work hard for what you have, and succeed, it's pretty discouraging when your achievement is targeted to appease the growing masses who don't have the discipline to sacrifice, and expect the achievers to incrementally fund more and more of their entitlement dreams. It is you that has the ignorance; one day if you ever sign the front of the check and not the back, you'll understand.

You are right. The new rich are assholes.

At least in the Pacific Northwest, old money is liberal money. Even the new money here is far more liberal. We have one of the highest concentration of billionaires in the country and most of them are solidly blue.

Also you basically re-affirmed my post about the all for one attitude in this country and scotts claim that you take a Darwinian approach to your fellow man.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Also you basically re-affirmed my post about the all for one attitude in this country and scotts claim that you take a Darwinian approach to your fellow man.

But.... I don't have an "all for one" attitude. I want as many people as possible to share in the same type of success that I have, but I want them to earn it rather than recede into a culture of dependency. Not only is it rewarding, but you appreciate what you work for a lot more and it motivates you to better yourself. I'm not saying we shouldn't help those who truly need help... I'm saying that the people who are fully capable of taking on the personal responsibility to develop their potential should. The whole give a man a fish, teach a man to fish thing... you know?