if edm is so easy to make why is it that it so few good edm tracks lately?

___________________
cryophonik.com | facebook | soundcloud

Sonar Platinum | Ableton Live 9 | Logic Pro X | Access Virus TI2 Keyboard | Kurzweil PC3X | Nord Lead 4R | NI Maschine

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember it and not be so shy when I am with Paul at Rain on the 13th. No, not bragging. Just telling you the truth.

And you wonder why I said what I said. Have some humility. You may impress some normal people with that type of stuff but this is a production forum. There are a lot of very good producers here and I think it's fair to say that any of the people here who are legit would be extremely put off by that. You realize you're tarnishing your label with statements like this right? I'd shut my mouth before you do anymore damage. Whether you'd like to admit it or not that IS bragging and you come off as a very insecure selfish little brat. The fact you make good music and STILL have to make statements like this shows how insecure you really are. You used the "walk softly and carry a big stick" mantra but then go and say stuff like this. STFU and let your music do the talking. Your soiling your rep and even worse your labels. How would your partners feel about some of these statements?

quote:

I don't understand where you're coming from when it comes to gear bragging. I have nothing compared to most?

It has nothing to do with how much you own. It's like everything is a popularity contest to you. Nothing ever seems to be about the music. I watched one of your live broadcasts when you were spinning the other day and you seemed generally disinterested in your own music. It's pretty easy to see what dj's really like what they do and the music they play and it's also plainly obvious who is in it for other reasons whatever they are.

quote:

What am I supposed to say about my music? It's good and you should really check it out! - That's what every rehtard says and nobody ever bothers to listen. Tell them somebody important is pounding the F out of it and they'll take notice. Simple as that. You can view me however you like, but, #1. you have no clue who I am or how I operate. Bragging about my gear? where? Bragging about oakey playing my tracks? Sorry if its the truth? I am not saying it in an arrogant manner. I said it because I want to hear what you have to offer since you seem to have a lot of bark and no bite.

You say nothing because music is not made for accolades! You have PO playing your tracks...stfu and make more; and continue to improve. If I were in your spot I wouldn't even be on forums period because you have your opportunity right in front of you and you're too fucking dumb to take advantage of it. Your content with putting out a few remixes? (I've yet to see any original works from you yet). I was originally planning on holding my tongue because I did respect you but now I see we will never work together in any matter because your head is way off. You're in this for all the wrong reasons and obviously trying to boost your self esteem via accomplishment. Now I'm not going to bring up anything from our many conversations because I don't play like that; but what you've said in this thread is ludicrous on so many levels and I hope you realize it and rethink your situation and can go back to the way you used to be. If not I feel sorry for you

quote:

You know I was just like you when I started when I was younger and I wish I would have just done what I try to do now and that is keep my mouth shut, carry a big stick, and let your music and others do the talking for you. Unfortunately I had to come in here and set the record straight.

Oh so you were on your deathbed at 23? I speak my mind and I'm not afraid of offending anyone. I have and always will do everything myself so I don't have a problem speaking out against people or things that need to be spoken out against. There is a reason I act like this and that's because i'm not afraid of anything; even death. In fact I'd welcome death because I'd love to get on to a better place away from people like you that are so fucking selfish. For someone who complains about present day music compared to your godly 90's; you aren't doing jack shit to fix it! What makes that worse is that you have the platform and ability to do so.

You need a reality check; I hope you can set yourself straight because right now you're shooting blind.

and now for something completely different

The great comedic work of Webb and Mitchel

quote:

Originally posted by lenieNt Force Disagree.. Not anyone can master EDM.. Although it depends on what you mean by master.. To make EDM is one thing, to be exceptionally good at it is another thing (somebody like Leon Bolier). It's what I think about when you say master atleast. I mean if we're gonna say Michael Jackson didn't have natural talent.. It's just.. not worth discussing ofcourse.. Because he indeed did. It would be plain stupidity and blindness to discuss it. Ofcourse growing up as a member of the Jackson family helps.. But then again Jermaine should have been equally as good right? There is something called natural talent and a musical gene, whether one likes it or not.. There's done dozens of studies on it... And yes I believe in God given gifts.. Heh actually it makes me a little sick just discussing it so I don't know what I'm on about here.. I know it to be so true..

That's untrue. EDM is very simple. All you need is to be studious, determined and put in the time. There are no shortcuts it's all about putting in the time. I would agree with you on the Bolier reference. But if you have a working knowledge of theory then you'd know that his tracks are not difficult to make. How do you think he puts out 40-50 a year? Natural talent and mastering something are completely different. I have no natural talent musically but the events in my life as well as my job have allowed me to teach myself anything I want to learn; and quickly. I'd imagine it's the same (albeit amplified) for the people like Bolier who you mentioned. Talent just offers someone a shorter route to success such as in MJ's case becoming a child prodigy. If someone wanted it bad enough though anyone could be just as good of a musician as MJ. Maybe nobody would be able to have his voice but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be equal to or better than him as a musician. A lack of talent (MJ's voice for example) can always be made up for by determination motivation and a chip on the shoulder. There are God given gifts. We however are not athletes. None of us as producers have to do our music live in one take and still get it perfect. Think about professional athletes and compare them to us producers and you'll see what I'm talking about. EDM is all about preparation and planning. The execution is extremely simple even in very advanced works. People just don't know how to objectively listen. If there were one trait more important than anything it is that; listening. Not just in edm but in life.

quote:

Making edm is simple.. just as playing a guitar is simple.. Making exceptional edm is not, just as being an exceptional guitar player is not. To be an outstanding transmitter of emotions through music demands both natural talent and lots of dedication.

The two are not comparable. Pressing buttons on a computer is not even close to equal to playing a live instrument. Of course edm is supposed to be simple because the clubbers have to be able to understand what you're transmitting; but I don't believe it has anything to do with talent. I don't think it takes talent or dedication to be a great transmitter of emotions. What it takes in my mind is an extremely analytical thought process and an ability to be completely transparent and honest with yourself about your works and even more importantly; your peers and competition. It helps if you're pissed off at all the idiots soiling the genre by making uninspiring shit and passing it off as good music to the fans and clubbers who are clueless either way and know no better. Doesn't anyone else find it funny that all of the good djs are usually not good producers? There is a reason for that.

quote:

Mozart didn't have talent for making music at all? Neither did Vivaldi? Beethoven? Bach? Schubert? Händel? Ofcourse they did..

While they all ended up being amazing musicians we have no idea how they arrived at their level of expertise. There are several different routes to the same endpoint. Could be talent but could be something else.

quote:

Einstein didn't have a natural gift in the art of thinking? Yes he did.. There's even been done studies of his well preserved brain lately where they amongst other things discovered unnaturally big neural connectors in central areas for processing of math and physics, and traces of synesthesic couplings. Couple that with an astonishing imagination and your set to become what I call an exceptional physicist. (note: exception(al))

I'm really glad you wrote this because now I am sure you'll see my point i'm trying to make. If they hadn't done those studies on his brain nobody would know if he was naturally gifted or had some other things to thank for his abilities and success. People may be predisposed to thinking one way or another but that doesn't make it fact. It's very hard to measure how people get to certain places unless they explain it themselves. To the outside world it always looks like they are just more talented and lucky than everyone else but I know enough to know that is not always the case.

Last edited by mfitterer1 on Feb-03-2010 at 21:45

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Good post, I disagree as well. My next door neighbour actually is a producer as well and gives recording/mixing classes on a school as well. He's does jingles, news-tunes all types of music but I manage to produce better house/trance music than he does. If dance music really was that easy for everyone, he would have outdone me in no-time. But he doesn't. He does in just about any other genre/field of expertise

My explanation for that is that he has no motivation to make better house/trance than you. Knowing myself when I am unmotivated I couldn't produce the theme to sesame street but when I am motivated I have made some great stuff. The mind is a fragile tool and the most important thing in life as a producer is knowing how to manipulate it to do what you want.

if dance is so easy

can you help me out with this synth sound

synth sound


Would appreciate the help.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceLover007 I think that we are spending too much time arguing and dragging this issue for too long and not spending enough time do what we love to do - create/produce music.

Even if it helps one person learn something that makes them a better musician than this discussion is more than worth it. I realize that my own success depends more on the entire industry. With that said there is a lot of educating that needs to be done so that people can realize how much power they truly have inside of them. Most people have no clue of their own abilities.

quote:

ether you are great/good and the mass will love you or you will do this only for you satisfaction (which is usually the case for some of us).

The two have little to no correlation imo. The only difference is the people who only do it for themselves don't have the business side that can get their music to the masses.

quote:

Doesn’t really matter for me if I will be famous artist/producer or not (don't get me wrong - I will do whatever is necessary to be one), it's just that feeling of complete satisfaction, feeling to be in the right place, doing the thing I love to do - that's what I'm doing that for, nothing less, nothing more just that satisfaction.

Amen brother! You have your head in the right spot. Just continue to grind and you will make it because that mindset is the one of success as far as music goes. You may not turn into AvB but then again I sure as hell wouldn't even want to be lol. Success is individually measured.

quote:

I know that all of us have different perspective/view on this, but as long as we are willing to listen, willing to learn and willing to work together, we WILL succeed.

Fixed

quote:

Originally posted by palm if edm is so easy to make why is it that it so few good edm tracks lately?

Progressive or traditional trance? I'd be happy to send you some tips on artists that are flying way under the radar

Easiest doesnt necessarily mean easy, if u think EDM is hard try making a rock or pop record.. by yourself.

___________________


http://soundcloud.com/subtara

Foreword: I'm no ludite - I've been playing with computers since I was 14, back in DOS 4.0/Windows 2.0 days and "Aware of all your Internet traditions". I am fully self-taught and got my first IT job when I was 19 - so I embrace technology wherever it is relevant. What I'm about to say will certainly sound contradictory, but bear with it.

I embrace Ableton and have nothing short of disdain for Cubase (flame away). I hate samples, yet use sample-based Maschine. I appreciate having MIDI, sometimes "painting" difficult progressions by mouse, instead of playing them out. I couldn't tell B or E or F or G by hearing it and most certaly would have a hard time pointing it out on my keyboard.

...but I do have to agree with Wiley that this Catanya is certainly cringe-worthy. It's not that it's easy to make - IT MAKES EDM SEEM... PRIMITIVELY DISPOSABLY STUPIDLY RETARDEDLY POINTLESS. What's the point in coming up with your own ideas, when you can have someone else do the work for you. Where's the reward? It's like having a program that does all the writing for you, you just pick from a menu. It's pretty weak, IMO. I may not know shit about theory and having MIDI + transpose made my life easier but I still have to come up with ideas to feed to MIDI. This takes it steps beyond and I find it "unsportsmanlike".

Many hits have been made using loops, samples, even presets. It's a matter of personal pride. Chef equivalent - do you use canned vegetables in your dishes or do you cook your own? Both may produce a delicious dish - it's all a matter of how it was prepared and served. Most likely dish prepared with organic fresh vegetables will taste much better than generic canned ones, provided same chef used same steps and ingredients. Or one may not notice entirely.

What it comes down to is HOW DOES CHEF FEEL about it? Is there more pride in cooking from scratch or more pride in getting the dish done quickly?

I've been working on re-making a classic trance track and so far, have invested over 100 HOURS in first 64 bars or so. That's about 100 hours for about... a minute worth of track re-made. I have a GREAT DEAL OF PRIDE in what I accomplished because:

1. I am training my ear to distinguish various elements in a track and arrangement
2. I'm learning my tools intimately
3. I'm advancing my skills by careful examination of mastery involved
4. I learn to program my own drum loops, finding other interesting tricks in between
5. I can say that even though I copied someone else's work - there's more in that track of ME than of the original producer, thereby making the track more special TO ME.

I get a sense of satisfaction from reverse engineering a process, hacking - if you will. Someone else may get a kick out of finishing a product and getting it released. As long as it resonates with the masses - who cares. Both schools of thought are purely philosophical, provided both result in a quality product.

On the opposite side of that spectrum is what you will hear on today's radio. Please listen to radio for a day and note how many pop tracks today use Antares autotune? I'd guess over 60% - and nearly ALL OF THEM sound like SHIT. At some point, some tosser producer decided that having a no-tallent singer's voice corrected would be cool because technology was there (thanks Cher, you cracky ol' back of AIDS). You then have "I'm so two thousand and eight, you're so two thousand and late" - being drilled into your ears by Blackshit Piss every 15 minutes (or "I've got a feeling").

All we need now is Antares + Catanya + sample libraries and you're ready to rock the dance floors.

We had a similar debate here few weeks ago - about buying patch banks vs programming your own (hello Alonzo!) and I expressed same ludite view - programming your own sounds is more rewarding in a LONG RUN.

Do I use presets? yup. Samples? well, sort off - if you count sampled instruments in Maschine. I don't usually use loops, unless I de-construct it and make it myself.

Bottom line is - music is art and as long as it is executed in a way that evokes an emotion, it "passed the smell test". However, I am concerned that having so many crutches breeds a generation of "technicians" and "arrangers" not trully worthy of being called "producer" - as the only thing they produce is gluing the pieces together.

Just because you assembled an IKEA bookshelf, it doesn't make you a furniture maker. Now, if you take the same shelf, re-finish it, re-paint it, change it into something else that resembles nothing that you originally purchased - YOU'RE A DESIGNER, maybe an artisan, but still - NOT A FURNITURE MAKER. You may make something mind-blowingly amazing, but you're still not a furniture maker.

I guess that's the crux of the discussion... and full of contradiction, I know. But I'll leave it at that.

/rant

///tons of anologies

___________________
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate

Last edited by aNYthing on Feb-03-2010 at 22:43

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 Progressive or traditional trance? I'd be happy to send you some tips on artists that are flying way under the radar

something original please