quote:

Originally posted by idoru That's opening up a can of worms...

Exactly... it's garbage.

There are people who are truly mentally ill, aka they have imbalances that are not due to "trauma" and NEED to be on anti-psychotic meds. This guy needs to STFU.

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Lie #9: You Cannot Blame Parents, Because “They Did The Best They Could.” My observation is that all parents, even the worst parents, “did the best they could.” Yet this doesn’t let any parent off the hook. A child has the right to blame his parents for their inadequacies—because their inadequacies damaged him. Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing.

As a kid I saw my parents as nearly perfect, highly ethical, with great morals...and this was primarily true...perhaps less true over time as they've become a product of their new environment. In the few situations where I felt they made mistakes on any part of my upbringing, they were blamed without much reasoning. As I got older I realized that Parents are just humans, and they are'nt perfect, and they make mistakes. Just like anyone, they too can be ignorant and lacking knowledge on how to raise a child in a different environment than where they grew up. So you have to 'understand' them and their 'humanity', and the imperfections that their human nature might have brought into situations.

I think a problem in our society is that people are taught that we have to be 'perfect', or to strive towards perfection, or that things can be this perfect ideal. I think this ideal hurts society more than it helps. Because there is less understanding towards mistakes, and this hurts the emotional intelligence of humans. And even if someone pushes themselves towards perfection, they are still short of perfection, so there is not much reward in the ideal. The Perception of not being perfect or being short of perfect waters down much of the work that went into it. It helps you be more productive, yet potentially still 'empty.'

I think religous books play a big part in this perfection ideal. And not enough is taught in schools on how to appreciate and understand human nature, and our imperfections. We are born out of probability, chaos, and imperfection, so why expect or tell people they should strive to be perfect?

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Last edited by Kismet7 on Apr-16-2010 at 01:36

quote:

Originally posted by Theresa After reading this, I decided this guy is a fucking moron and wont be reading any more of his bullshit trite.

Well, right fucking on!

YEAH!

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This thread reminds me of slylee.

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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Lie #9: You Cannot Blame Parents, Because “They Did The Best They Could.” My observation is that all parents, even the worst parents, “did the best they could.” Yet this doesn’t let any parent off the hook. A child has the right to blame his parents for their inadequacies—because their inadequacies damaged him. Laying blame at the feet of perpetrators is a huge step in breaking the intergenerational cycle of trauma—and sets the stage for healing. Lie #10: Psychiatric Medications Help Many People. Passively taking a pill, even if that pill helps you function better, sends your spirit the message that life’s answer do not come from within. This is an evil message, because it is untrue. People need to change their lives deeply, both inside and out, in order to heal. Real change is difficult—often hellishly so—but it is the only way. Lie #11: Addictions and “Mental Illnesses” Are Diseases. Addictions and so-called “mental illnesses” are symptoms of a deeper problem: unresolved trauma. Labeling symptoms as disease is easy and convenient for people who are terrified to look below the surface. Delving below the surface entails taking deeper personal responsibility, grieving, and feeling rage at traumatizers—often your own parents. How much easier to believe in “inherent” disease and let your parents off the hook?

what a fucking retard.

Actually, in throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, you're the one who comes across as the fucking retard.

People like Mackler and Mate are a radical thinkers, and in radical times...just because you don't agree, doesn't mean there isn't any validity to what they offer up.

Theresa, what if those people who you feel NEED to be on meds actually DON'T need to be on them, and it's simply a matter of present-day society not having the proper therapies in place to make this so? We used to think that bloodletting was an acceptable means to cure a plethora of diseases, that trepanning would take care of migraines and that lobotomies were a wonderful fix for psychiatric disorders. To think that we've somehow reached the pinnacle in the field of mental health and that our current models are the best that we can do conveys the height of arrogance (which you mimic perfectly in your dismissiveness).

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Last edited by PivotTechno on Apr-16-2010 at 16:02

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno People like Mackler and Mate are a radical thinkers, and in radical times...just because you don't agree, doesn't mean there isn't any validity to what they offer up.

if there was significant validity to what whackler had to say he would have spent his time getting published in journals not selling DVDs on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Theresa, what if those people who you feel NEED to be on meds actually DON'T need to be on them, and it's simply a matter of present-day society not having the proper therapies in place to make this so? We used to think that bloodletting was an acceptable means to cure a plethora of diseases, that trepanning would take care of migraines and that lobotomies were a wonderful fix for psychiatric disorders. To think that we've somehow reached the pinnacle in the field of mental health and that our current models are the best that we can do conveys the height of arrogance (which you mimic perfectly in your dismissiveness).

lulz. yeah, its acceptable to dismiss all knowledge and advancement because science is imperfect.

all you'd need to do is replace 'trauma' with 'thetan' and bam, you've got scientology.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN if there was significant validity to what whackler had to say he would have spent his time getting published in journals not selling DVDs on the internet.

Yeah right, because being published in journals is the be-all and end-all of sceintific validation.

Psychedelic researchers like Rick Doblin (look him up if you've never heard of him) were forced, by the nature of their work, to operate on the fringe of their field for years, often vilified or completely ostracized from their so-called contemporaries. With the U.S. goverment having recently reopened exploration into the use of psychedelics as a healing medium, Doblin is now the leading reasearcher in the field. Doesn't matter whether you, me, or anyone else thought he was right or not, his perseverance paid off in the long run.

History has shown time and time again that some of the most out-there thinkers are the ones that lead us to the most radical discoveries about ourselves and the world we live in.

And "thetan" is a made-up word. Last I checked, trauma can still be found in the dictionary and refers to both physical and psychological injury.

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quote:

Originally posted by PivotTechno Actually, in throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, you're the one who comes across as the fucking retard. People like Mackler and Mate are a radical thinkers, and in radical times...just because you don't agree, doesn't mean there isn't any validity to what they offer up. Theresa, what if those people who you feel NEED to be on meds actually DON'T need to be on them, and it's simply a matter of present-day society not having the proper therapies in place to make this so? We used to think that bloodletting was an acceptable means to cure a plethora of diseases, that trepanning would take care of migraines and that lobotomies were a wonderful fix for psychiatric disorders. To think that we've somehow reached the pinnacle in the field of mental health and that our current models are the best that we can do conveys the height of arrogance (which you mimic perfectly in your dismissiveness).

Mental illnesses are as much an illness as cancer or the flu. You can't just use "therapy" to cure cancer can you? So what in the world would make anyone think that you could use "therapy" to cure something like schizophrenia? It has been medically and scientifically proven that many mental illnesses are directly related to damage in the brain, improper function and imbalanced chemicals. You can't just talk that away in "therapy" just like you can't talk away cancer, and any idiot who would suggest that it is possible doesn't deserve to be given any credit or thought in my opinion. It just proves that his ramblings are based off of a bunch of shit he has made up.

I also don't respect someone who believes that it is both ok and should be encouraged to have an external locus of control. I had a shit childhood... I would wager it was worse than a large portion of the people on these boards. I don't use that however, as an excuse to wallow in self-pity and point the finger at someone else for my fuck ups. YOU control your own life, YOU decide how you want to feel and what you want to do with YOUR life. It is not the fault of anyone else for how shitty your life is when you become an adult and take control. Many people have shown that they can come from the depths of hell and rise above it and have excellent lives by taking control of their own lives, working hard and stop blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. For this dude to actually say that you SHOULD blame other people for your shitty life is just pathetic.

The chemical imbalance hypothesis has hardly been proven scientifically. It's fair to criticize it. Indeed, there is plenty of scholarly work doing exactly that, so that alone is hardly a radical idea.

Accusing psychiatric medications of sending evil messages to peoples' spirits, however, is not a very useful or even meaningful criticism.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Accusing psychiatric medications of sending evil messages to peoples' spirits, however, is not a very useful or even meaningful criticism.

Hyperbole is useless, indeed.

The guy reads more like a cult guru. Everything I've seen of Mackler in this thread reads more like an argument negating cliche' than an actual argument. Comparisons to Scientology are warranted because with some minor adjustments to the script, the cult-speaks are virtually interchangeable.







I'll reserve judgment on Mate pending a perusal of his books at the library.

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quote:

Originally posted by Theresa Mental illnesses are as much an illness as cancer or the flu. You can't just use "therapy" to cure cancer can you? So what in the world would make anyone think that you could use "therapy" to cure something like schizophrenia? It has been medically and scientifically proven that many mental illnesses are directly related to damage in the brain, improper function and imbalanced chemicals. You can't just talk that away in "therapy" just like you can't talk away cancer, and any idiot who would suggest that it is possible doesn't deserve to be given any credit or thought in my opinion. It just proves that his ramblings are based off of a bunch of shit he has made up. I also don't respect someone who believes that it is both ok and should be encouraged to have an external locus of control. I had a shit childhood... I would wager it was worse than a large portion of the people on these boards. I don't use that however, as an excuse to wallow in self-pity and point the finger at someone else for my fuck ups. YOU control your own life, YOU decide how you want to feel and what you want to do with YOUR life. It is not the fault of anyone else for how shitty your life is when you become an adult and take control. Many people have shown that they can come from the depths of hell and rise above it and have excellent lives by taking control of their own lives, working hard and stop blaming everyone else for their shortcomings. For this dude to actually say that you SHOULD blame other people for your shitty life is just pathetic.

Sooo, he's made this shit up after 10 years of administering psychotherapy to hundreds of people. What are your credentials?

And again, if you actually took the time to read what he says, he doesn't advocate blaming people for their own shit lives then simply walking away with a smug grin, he states that NOT blaming the source of your trauma for your present condition is a form of very damaging denial, and that the anger that accompanies the resentment toward to perpetrator needs to be brought to surface, allowed to transmute to grief (which is all anger is in its most base form, and for some stupid reason a relatively taboo expression of emotion in modern society) in order for real healing to take place.

You seem like a pretty angry individual yourself. 'Nuff caps and arbitrary swearing leads me to believe so. Are you happy the way you are? No resentment toward the folks and how they treated you as a child whatsoever? No addictive behaviour that you wish you could control or eliminate altogether? If so, I commend you, you've obviously worked through your baggage quite thoroughly. If not, then you're exactly the kind of person Mackler's referring to and you're going to carry on seeing what you want to see, and nothing I, or anyone else says is going to convince you otherwise.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go put some motherfucking BASIL CLONES in water. Peace.

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Last edited by PivotTechno on Apr-16-2010 at 21:36