Probably because he has received so many mixes with distortion that he would rather people stay well away. I suppose someone that knows what they are doing can mix at the level you recommend but they are a rare breed.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad my point is that you should learn the correct way to do things regardless of your current set up as you will might have to work in the analog world someday and it is just a good habit to mix at the appropriate levels. No there is no difference but why not just learn the right way to do things. Like Rann said, don't touch the master but does it make an audible difference ? no but why not just learn the right way to do things. Another analogy is orchestration. With the use of sample libraries, the rules of orchestration don't apply as much as the balance can easily be fixed by a fader but I suppose I am someone that prefers to know how to do it the right way from the start and not develop bad habits that will eventually encumber you if you go far enough.

Pfft. Its fine to talk about the right way to do things, but if it doesn't make an audible difference, then in my opinion there IS no right way. Every studio does things differently, and you have to adapt to their working methods if you work there, but thats something you work out when you get there. You don't mix in some weird way now just so you don't have to adapt to something that may or may not present an issue later.

No doubt bob katz knows what he's talking about, but the applicability of that info to this debate is pretty minimal. Most of us are mastering and mixing in the same session, and if we're sending stuff to a mastering engineer, then we're prepared to drop the master down -6 dB to account for intersample peaks, which seems to be why he's suggesting staying away from 0 dB. If we're exporting ourselves, then we're aware of the issues and ARE using oversampling limiters as he suggests, which accounts for the intersample peaks.

The question is whether its better to mix to 0 dB and then export at -6 by dropping the master, or whether its better to mix at -3. I still see no evidence for the latter I'm sorry to say.

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Read This

If you have got the patience to read that whole thread then please do so.

Digital DAW metering is not accurate, you could be getting many overs and introducing digital clipping without the meters even filckering. Not to mention clipping individual plugins / effects!

Why would you want to mix at such at high level? why not just turn up your monitoring instead?

There are no benefits to mixing at such a high level ITB at 24-bit, there are only negatives. I will now always trim individial tracks (Not using the fader, I mean trimming) so that they peak at around -10 to -15db. This is even more important when running signals out of the host and through external outboard processors which as you will read in the thread above, have optimal levels for a signal.

Just read the post above for the reasoning behind this.

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Originally posted by nortek i red on gearslutz that normalizing fucks up the render? why is that?

Dunno why it would but i normalize outside of Live - i must set the normalize option on in the Live render settings and try it that way - cant imagine it will be any different...

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quote:

Originally posted by xphonix Read This If you have got the patience to read that whole thread then please do so. Digital DAW metering is not accurate, you could be getting many overs and introducing digital clipping without the meters even filckering. Not to mention clipping individual plugins / effects! Why would you want to mix at such at high level? why not just turn up your monitoring instead? There are no benefits to mixing at such a high level ITB at 24-bit, there are only negatives. I will now always trim individial tracks (Not using the fader, I mean trimming) so that they peak at around -10 to -15db. This is even more important when running signals out of the host and through external outboard processors which as you will read in the thread above, have optimal levels for a signal. Just read the post above for the reasoning behind this.

I agree with him that there should be a setting to make the meters 3/4 scaled. That would be cool.

But you don't really know what you're talking about IMO. As far as I'm aware, its impossible to clip a 32/64 bit plugin, so thats not an issue for most people.

We just went over the benefits, the main one is that you get more out of your meters. The post you posted is pretty silly. I've seen it before, and the analogy he's using is stupid, because in a digital system running at 32 bit, you can't clip the channels. You can clip the channels in an SSL console, so its a different issue.

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you definitely can clip a plugin - sony oxford for example. That is widely used by many people.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips I agree with him that there should be a setting to make the meters 3/4 scaled. That would be cool. But you don't really know what you're talking about IMO. As far as I'm aware, its impossible to clip a 32/64 bit plugin, so thats not an issue for most people. We just went over the benefits, the main one is that you get more out of your meters. The post you posted is pretty silly. I've seen it before, and the analogy he's using is stupid, because in a digital system running at 32 bit, you can't clip the channels. You can clip the channels in an SSL console, so its a different issue.

I have the same opinion.

He's also talking about receiving tracks from another source for a mix. We produce, mix and master often all in the same platform so we actually have control over the actual instruments, and while I agree that digital meters are not the most accurate I personally feel that if you run the track a few times and have no clips then chances are you really are not clipping.

I don't get all this bullhsit about just turn your monitors up though. It's not about not being able to hear enough. You calibrate your monitors to the K system so you have a common reference point regardles of what studio or material you're working in, not to mention the 20db built in head room at 83db, that just so happens to be the sweet spot of hearing in relation to the Fletcher Munson curves. "just turning up your monitors" will completely fuck your calibration.

Theoretically you should not be able to clip a plugin that is greater than 16bit, but I think the clipping that occurs is a programming issue rather than a true volume issue.

^^^ Oh well, I guess we can't convince them all

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