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Originally posted by Raphie I don't listen to DJ sets ever, i listen to podcast shows which get synced in order to stay current on new major releases and listen to Soundcloud producers, never listen to DJ sets on Soundcloud or here.

This is sort of what I'm getting at. There are actually DJ sets (the tranceaddicts unite series) which are entirely comprised of TA Producers' work. But I've yet to find (albeit I don't spend a ton of time in the DJ promotion section) a single TA production (TA DJ/Producers including their own work doesn't count) included in a set of other people's (some of whom may have been formerly active posters, here, but are not currently) work.

I'm just being honest, here, but it seems like if we are worth the salt we'd like to be, we should be hearing a few more TA productions included in sets posted in the DJ promotion section. Having listened to a few sets, it seems like there are marked dissimilarities between music posted in Music Producer's Promotion and song selections made by DJ's, here.

The standard characteristics and fundamentals are there. There's a beat, it's predominently synth driven. But there are nuances others are putting into their work, which seem to drive the DJ selection process, that are being missed, entirely, here.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Good questions. I would say the answer to (2) is much larger than the answer to (3).

I think this is true, although to be fair, it seems like a lot of TA DJ's lack the familiarity (or at least the confidence with) terminology used by producers. That's been a problem that producers have, as well (myself included) in not really knowing what someone may be referring to when discussing the characteristics of a track. While some may genuinely lack the motivation to give constructive input, I think there are some who may just be hesitant, not wanting to step on egos, and concerned that their feedback may be misconstrued.

SYSTEM-J, to his credit, seems to be doing a lot of lurking here and one can assume, whether it's an active pursuit or not, he's gleaning a bit of familiarity with the fundamental jargon. One look at how quickly threads in Music Discussion degenerate into insubstantial quibbling with no qualitative analysis isn't so much an indicator of incapacity as much as it has to do with the fact that music is difficult and communicating about music, knowingly, can be that much more frustrating.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I think it is generally assumed on TA -- and not just by the DJs, but by most who care about music here -- that the producer forums are full of people stuck in the year 2000, trying to make the perfect supersaw lead and snare roll. While this was perhaps closer to the truth five or six years ago, it has been false for quite a while, but for some reason the perception hasn't changed much.

I think this is true, as well. The Music Producer's Promotion forum still has a lot of mediocrity on offer, which I think helps feed this notion, and it seems like a lot of the work put up there is about five-years behind - if not in style, than in technique. Still, I've heard some good songs in there, all the same. I don't think I can say that I'd put them in a DJ set, but, at this point, that's because I'm not DJ'ing, at all, let alone as much as I'd like.

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my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by Beatflux I used to, but most sets I listen to are pretty crap IMO. A lot of TA DJs are aspiring to sound up to date and novel, and that usually works to their disadvantage. A lot of DJs will pigeon hole themselves into one particular genre, and will only play what is current. Is it really so bad to play an older track that is great? Then you have the set cliches that include: If you are playing a trance set, make sure to play tech trance at the end. It really comes down to poor track selection. Their over inflated egos justify their eagerness to "put their artistic stamp on the music" and that gives DJs an avenue to try and express their crappy artistic skills.

I'm finding your viewpoints both counter-productively adversarial and genuinely outside the scope of my experience. Personally, I haven't had the misfortune (knock on wood) of being disappointed by anyone's DJ set, that I've heard on TA - including the live broadcasts in the COR.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by EddieZilker The standard characteristics and fundamentals are there. There's a beat, it's predominently synth driven. But there are nuances others are putting into their work, which seem to drive the DJ selection process, that are being missed, entirely, here.

It's probably the mastering.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker But I've yet to find (albeit I don't spend a ton of time in the DJ promotion section) a single TA production (TA DJ/Producers including their own work doesn't count) included in a set of other people's (some of whom may have been formerly active posters, here, but are not currently) work.

It does happen. I have had two of my tracks included in other people's sets here. One of those sets was very well-received, too, and I don't remember any comments about my track being a low point or anything like that. I know some others have had their tracks featured, too.

Even though, as I already pointed out, the popular perception of the producer forums is wrong, I do think it is true that what goes on here is somewhat out of step with musical fashion elsewhere on the board. The strongest fan group out there seems to fall along the spectrum from disco to different kinds of subdued house or tech house stuff, but not too much of that hits the promo forum, really.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker I'm finding your viewpoints both counter-productively adversarial and genuinely outside the scope of my experience. Personally, I haven't had the misfortune (knock on wood) of being disappointed by anyone's DJ set, that I've heard on TA - including the live broadcasts in the COR.

There's nothing adversarial about it at all.

I have been depressed for quite a while and that does affect my enjoyment of music. I can't listen to music that is decent or below. It has to be good or great.

edit: Tell me Eddie, why is it that the tracks that get produced here don't get played out by TA DJs?

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles It does happen. I have had two of my tracks included in other people's sets here. One of those sets was very well-received, too, and I don't remember any comments about my track being a low point or anything like that. I know some others have had their tracks featured, too.

If you've got a link to it, I'd love to hear it.

Clearly, my casual browsing is writing checks my stated observations can't cash.

That said, ideally, I think there should be more. Not one in every set and I really don't want it to be some ego-driven fad, but simply predicated on a DJ's meaningful and deserved preference for one of our tracks.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Even though, as I already pointed out, the popular perception of the producer forums is wrong, I do think it is true that what goes on here is somewhat out of step with musical fashion elsewhere on the board. The strongest fan group out there seems to fall along the spectrum from disco to different kinds of subdued house or tech house stuff, but not too much of that hits the promo forum, really.

I've noticed the narrow focus, fan-base cross-sections, too, and that is probably part of it. Where the onus of the producer is concerned, however, I find a great deal of music I'm hearing, that I genuinely like in the MPPF, to be technically gifted but lacking in a fundamental ability to stand out in a meaningful way. Sometimes it's because it's imitative or that it holds to strict rules governing where every element is supposed to fit in. What it doesn't do, with great frequency, is take chances.

Perhaps it's an unfair comparison, but I listened to JOOF's 02-12-2010 Essential Mix, the other day, and every song on it was technically flawless and seemed to brim with carefully considered sound-design, employed both dynamically and aggressively, in such a way that just outshines 95% of what I hear in MPPF. There wasn't a filler (or maybe anything which stood out, to me, as idle filler - and please don't think I'm bashing producer's, here, with this remark) track in the set. Each of the tracks seemed to be constructed in such a way that they stood out.

I hear that sort of risk-taking here, very infrequently. What I hear a lot of is work that is certainly note-worthy but that seems to lack a voice of distinction and holds back a lot of what both could and should be put forward. I think it's something that people are quite capable of, here. They're just not doing it.

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Originally posted by Beatflux There's nothing adversarial about it at all. I have been depressed for quite a while and that does affect my enjoyment of music. I can't listen to music that is decent or below. It has to be good or great.

Depression is anger turned inward, so it looks like you're releasing some of that. Such all-or-nothing declarations aren't typical of anything other than discharging hostility, at best, and trolling, at second best. It seems very little thought was spared to what TA DJ's might be doing right, let alone appreciating that and there's also a specificity lacking from your remarks which makes discerning them as anything other than idle baiting seem quite foolish.

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Originally posted by Beatflux edit: Tell me Eddie, why is it that the tracks you, yourself produce don't get played out by TA DJs?

Fixed because I ask myself that question, a lot, and think it has to do with 99.9% my own short-comings as a producer and 0.01 percent my style.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by EddieZilker If you've got a link to it, I'd love to hear it.

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=513400

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I've noticed the narrow focus, fan-base cross-sections, too, and that is probably part of it. Where the onus of the producer is concerned, however, I find a great deal of music I'm hearing, that I genuinely like in the MPPF, to be technically gifted but lacking in a fundamental ability to stand out in a meaningful way.

Well, so many things you hear in there come from people who have been writing music for a couple years or less. It's natural that they may not have developed a very distinctive style yet, and are largely focused on getting up to the sonic standards of their producer "role models."

I'm not sure what's so puzzling to you here, though. Of course there will be a big difference in quality between a forum that has no entry requirements other than having put together a couple minutes of sound and a DJ set made by a respected jock and producer with his own label and a couple of decades in the game...

lots of good opinions in here, the only thing i would say is the audiences have definitely moved from DJ to producer, I know we're all complaining about how easy it is to DJ vs produce but I can't think of anyone as of late who has made themselves famous from just DJing, can you (yes i know lots of people use ghost producers, that's a whole other topic)?

Maybe the general audience is wording it wrong or the media is positioning it incorrectly but the guys at the top [who actually write their own music] are artists (regardless if you like their music or not).

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=513400

Thanks.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Well, so many things you hear in there come from people who have been writing music for a couple years or less. It's natural that they may not have developed a very distinctive style yet, and are largely focused on getting up to the sonic standards of their producer "role models."

True, but I think this strategy is counter-productive in the long term. It seems to insulate from a very obvious resource which would serve to keep the aspiring producer abreast (huhuhuhhh - he said breast) of new ideas, lends insight as to how the tracks that producers construct are incorporated into sets, by DJ's, and offers selections of tracks in a wide range of styles, many elements of which are interchangeable. And it's not as though a producer couldn't find a DJ who's stylistically similar to their preferences, either.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I'm not sure what's so puzzling to you here, though. Of course there will be a big difference in quality between a forum that has no entry requirements other than having put together a couple minutes of sound and a DJ set made by a respected jock and producer with his own label and a couple of decades in the game...

Well, it was an unfair comparison.

The fact is that a lot of the song selection in DJ promotion has those stylistic elements which help the track to stand out from the standard musical bedding. The JOOF set, however, seems to amplify that which is why, in addition to the facts that it's both highly regarded by TA's and not the prototypical tech-house, house, or disco flavors, I used it as an example.

The difference in quality isn't what's puzzling me, however, as much as the fact that such a difference is hardly mentioned and that there seems to be little motivation to look outside of oneself long enough to notice it (even though that could well be a private matter, not yet subject to discussion). I'm not discounting the notion that the quality of tracks issued by individual producers are subject to their advancement on the learning curve, let alone discounting the fact that the learning curve, itself, isn't exactly mapped out or conducive of a cookie cutter path-way with everyone learning similarly and achieving similar results. It just seems that if you want to be played by DJ's - and most people here, do - that one should listen to what the DJ's are playing and be making notice of what distinguishes those choices in track selection apart from their own work. Especially in conjunction with your aforementioned fan-boi "role-model" self-taught methodology.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Depression is anger turned inward, so it looks like you're releasing some of that.

That's not true for myself.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Such all-or-nothing declarations aren't typical of anything other than discharging hostility, at best, and trolling, at second best. It seems very little thought was spared to what TA DJ's might be doing right, let alone appreciating that and there's also a specificity lacking from your remarks which makes discerning them as anything other than idle baiting seem quite foolish.

If you want me to be more specific, you could ask.

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Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

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Originally posted by Beatflux That's not true for myself.

Well, discharging hostility can be counter-productive, when taken to excess, so if that's not working, you might try focusing that energy on some creative endeavor.

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Originally posted by Beatflux If you want me to be more specific, you could ask.

Asking would negate the self-serving assumption I'd made that you only thought in the simple terms reflected in your sentences and, by virtue of that, were incapable of any discussion beyond the tip of the proverbial ice-berg.

___________________

Now with extra singles!
my old stuff, not quite up to snuff - but I still dig it - UPDATED 9/23/2012