quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I know. I own that compilation. And you're clutching at straws. All Simon Reynolds is referring to is the way house music sounds when you replace most of the sounds with acid. Everything he's describing is actually the TB-303. The 303 is inherently weird, abstract, inhuman, and alien. It encapsulates the exact essence of sonic hyperreality that defines futurist electronic music - a simulation of a "real" instrument so synthetic and unrecognisable it absconds from any obligations towards reality. That's why it's been such an enduring staple of electronic music. And I know what you're going to say - these properties aren't exclusive to the 303. However, if we're going to assume "acid" is some synonym for cold, impersonal, futurist hyperreality then you're going to relabel several hundred thousand tracks as acid. They're not. Acid = 303.

You've yet to offer proof for any of your claims in any way.

Funny how simon reynolds doesn't even mention the TB-303 by name. He writes of it abstractly, equal to his description of the other mechanical techniques of acid house.

I know it's blowing your mind, but every time I hear someone described 303 squelch as 'acid', i have to cringe at their pedestrian ignorance. It's like when someone hears any 4/4 beat and call it 'techno'.

And it's not about relabeling tracks. Since when does music need to be dogmatically compartmentalized like this? What is the purpose of relabeling music in this way? In many cases early house and techno are not easily discernable or cannot be discerned as unique styles.


BTW - Strings of life would most definitely be called acid house all around the world if it had been produced in chicago. It's a political distinction, Detroit guys wanting to cling to their baby and hold their own against chicago.

Last edited by nefardec on May-12-2011 at 14:31

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec BTW - Strings of life would most definitely be called acid house all around the world if it had been produced in chicago. It's a political distinction, Detroit guys wanting to cling to their baby and hold their own against chicago.

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec it's a huge part of it, but it's also the 808 and he rhythm of course, the minimalism, the militant cadence, the use of vocals, the alien sense of authority, the subjugation to the rhythm and the sound. i was just trying to make a point that the presence of 303 squelch in another track doesn't automatically make it acid house or acid anything. if acid house is like an alien invasion, the squelch is like the voice of the leader, the mind control aspect. but the 808 is there to keep you in line and stuff your body parts into little metal cages.

Strings of Life:

- 808? I think it uses this, but then most tracks at the time did.
- Rhythm? Strings of Life has no percussion or bassline.
- Minimalism? Perhaps for its time, at a stretch.
- Militant cadence? Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.
- Vocals? None.
- Alien sense of authority? Not at all. Again, the opposite. It's full of soul.

If you're going to make a believable argument, you'll have to be a lot more consistent. Which characteristics do you think qualify Strings of Life as acid house, even though I just debunked everything you said previously?

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I know it's blowing your mind, but every time I hear someone described 303 squelch as 'acid', i have to cringe at their pedestrian ignorance. It's like when someone hears any 4/4 beat and call it 'techno'.

So, what do you think the common element that unites acid house, acid techno and acid trance is then?

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ecstasy

It's not really well known where exactly the term came from, I've always heard the whole "reminiscent of acid rock - so let's call it acid house" bit.

Wikipedia has some good info on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_h...ogy_of_the_term

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quote:

Originally posted by nefardec I know it's blowing your mind, but every time I hear someone described 303 squelch as 'acid', i have to cringe at their pedestrian ignorance. It's like when someone hears any 4/4 beat and call it 'techno'.

That's because you're an insufferable purist wanker who desperately wants to wrap up the music you like in esoteric knowledge to make it more exclusive. Acid house must have some hastily bullshitted essence that no average joe would spot. Or wait... is it actually a cultural movement? Who cares, as long as you can assuage yourself with the thought that you know way more about house music than the trendy dickheads charting this Ten Ragas track on RA, right?

And nothing you're saying is blowing my mind. I'd expect nothing less.

quote:

And it's not about relabeling tracks. Since when does music need to be dogmatically compartmentalized like this? What is the purpose of relabeling music in this way? In many cases early house and techno are not easily discernable or cannot be discerned as unique styles.

Point is that if your definition is correct and widely understood, half the dance music ever made would probably be labelled "acid" from 1987 onwards. Strangely enough, only tracks dominated by the 303 get dubbed as such.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J That's because you're an insufferable purist wanker who desperately wants to wrap up the music you like in esoteric knowledge to make it more exclusive. Acid house must have some hastily bullshitted essence that no average joe would spot. Or wait... is it actually a cultural movement? Who cares, as long as you can assuage yourself with the thought that you know way more about house music than the trendy dickheads charting this Ten Ragas track on RA, right? And nothing you're saying is blowing my mind. I'd expect nothing less.

believe me, all the insufferable purist wankery is on your end, trying to define define define according to a pure notion that has no basis in reality, that is, that the sound of a tb-303 with filter and resonance is called 'acid', without any supporting evidence to your claim, in the face of several primary source accounts that disprove your argument.

and you're the one trying to exclude a lot of great acid tracks from your puritanical scheme.

now you are really grasping at straws - your last defense is to accuse of me self aggrandizement simply because I am defending a position about the discussion we're both having.

the problem is not one of the 'essence' of acid house. it's the naming. the word has come to be associated with the sound, though it was not in origin. yet if you talk to any old school raver or historian of electronic music or detroit/chicago dj/producer from that era, they will reiterate over and over that acid was more than a sound, it was a whole movement, and the sound was its battle cry. it's not about elitism. it's just that the acid sound is so recognizable and brandable, that it has outlasted the movement itself.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Point is that if your definition is correct and widely understood, half the dance music ever made would probably be labelled "acid" from 1987 onwards. Strangely enough, only tracks dominated by the 303 get dubbed as such.

it is correct, it's NOT widely understood, for the same reason you can play a deep house track or a drum and bass track to most americans and they will say it's techno.

and it's also the same reason people say 'ATM machine' or 'PIN number'. a combination of convenience and ignorance.

actually your point about half of dance music ever made is a good point. acid house changed all dance music forever, and its germ replicates itself in nearly everything since.

Last edited by nefardec on May-12-2011 at 16:59

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated So, what do you think the common element that unites acid house, acid techno and acid trance is then?

acid techno and acid trance all come from the same conceptual planet and share many of the same mechanical production techniques, and yes, instruments.

people do tend to have more of a 303 fetish in those scenes, but again, all of the same conventions i described about acid house appear in these derivations.

I always thought it was just literally about LSD.

quote:

Originally posted by enydo I always thought it was just literally about LSD.

my thoughts exactly. or freebase.

is this acid?


i think it is, still no 303, 909 or even 808.

[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

quote:

Originally posted by Domesticated Strings of Life: - 808? I think it uses this, but then most tracks at the time did. - Rhythm? Strings of Life has no percussion or bassline. - Minimalism? Perhaps for its time, at a stretch. - Militant cadence? Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. - Vocals? None. - Alien sense of authority? Not at all. Again, the opposite. It's full of soul. If you're going to make a believable argument, you'll have to be a lot more consistent. Which characteristics do you think qualify Strings of Life as acid house, even though I just debunked everything you said previously?

i didn't set out to a make a believable argument, i set out to make a true argument.

first of all, i don't think you've ever heard the song.maybe you've heard 'strings of the strings of life', which is an acapella. did you ever wonder why it was called 'rhythim is rhythim'?



808 - check
rhythm - absolutely
militant snare cadence - check
minimalism - check (minimal doesn't mean quiet, btw)
vocals - it's not there are vocals, it's that IF there are vocals, they are cut up as samples, and used as rhythmic sound objects. in this case, the 'voice' is the piano.
alien sense of authority - i disagree. it's certainly alien, certainly like an unidentified sound object. except these aliens are like the aliens in the 5th element, with a message of hope and life for all mankind.