Elysium:
Its funny that u mention the Big Bang. In the same book i was reading about omnipotence vs free will, there was a article concerning a a a famous Harvard astrologer(i forget his name). Anyhow, he was able to trace the origin of the unverse back to a single point in time. It was not the big bang as many had thought. I'll have to dig up the article but, i remember that this thoery had been tested and proven as far as my memory goes.


Astrologer? I believe it's Stephen Hawking (theoretical physicist) who theorizes the Big Bang originated from a black hole. I read his latest book, "Universe in a Nutshell", some many months back that showed the process with simple diagrams from a 'singular' point exploding out like a cone.

Is this guy severly handicapped? If he is thats the man and thanks for the correection. my memory is just not what it used to be.

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Originally posted by DjSuez I'm sorry, but i just can't believe that... It would be a hell of a job to create an earth LOOKING 4500000000 years old, but BEING 6000 years old. He would have to create the footsteps, skelleton's, print's, cavedrawings etc. from every creature that'd lived on this planet, and he could not even rely on evolution, 'cause in his opinion it never were... I think also that the footsteps etc. are proof of dinosaurs being there... And why would god create an earth which looks so much older than it is, it's not that it would make a difference to us...

I don't believe that God made the earth look like millions of years old, but with you saying its a hell of a job to do that, I have to say...this is God we're talking about He can do anything, making the earth look really old (even though I don't think he did it) would be a joke to Him.

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Originally posted by DjSuez How do God can then? time in the form it exists nowadays is a creation of men. If you're able to think without time, nothing woukd happen, or anything happens in a undividable little time.

Time is a concept that was invented by God for man. In God's dimension, there is no such thing as time. He exists forever and has existed since the beginning of eternity. In man's dimension, time obviously exists. Time is a means for us to grasp continuity in our lives. Many of you probably can't or won't believe that time doesn't exist with God, but of course that's understandable, because we've never lived without time, so we can't even understand it...

___________________

Tunes that'll kick your azz:

Tony Walker - Field of Joy (Original Mix)
DJ Centaury & Wavetraxx - Dark Angel (Original Club Mix)
Flutlicht - Icarus (Original Daedalus Mix)

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Frost: Sounds like a self-realist to me. Simple wisdom and simple truths. too bad there are not too many of you around this planet.. At leas,t not yet, until you infect everybody.

Hehe infect everybody, i like it =-P. But really it is logical. I Have spent a lot of time thinking there is something all powerful out someplace, I have prayed and things have happened. But i just have a hard time latching on fully. I mean if i truely dedicate myself to something so much, live my life the way it is said i should. Just do everything in the whole outline of how to get into the gates. But when i die, nothing no gates, nothing who knows what happens. What if i spend my life praying and having faith but when its all over....nothing. What will my life have been for? I figure at least if love, respect just chill with everyone and live my life like me (The god of myself) That when i die, and there really is a gate, then i should be judged on what i believed in, not weather or not i had faith in something i had no clue was there. If there is this all powerful being it should be able to understand that and accept me. If not I am wrong and well then whatever happens, happens. Although im not going to live in fear of the fact that I may be turned away. Thats not life, thats slavery.

I wont react on everybody personally...though i still have read everything in thisd thread. I think it's very interesting.

Everyone believing in the bible and god an so on, is making up excuses for people saying that the bible isn't true. A century ago people just said everything in the bible is true. With more and more evidence coming wich reject this, christians are more and more saying that it's ment not literrally etc. I think that's weak, with all do respect. You just have to stay by what you stabd for, and not change your opinion because you can't hold it anymore...


To Mart: of course men can't understand universe, but people like S Hawkings are getting it more and more. Look, things like lightning and stuff are things we used to say it were the gods of thunder or whatever, but we came to understand it. With the universe it's the same in my opinion, we now say it's gods and stuff, but in a couple of hundreds, maybe thousands of years, if we still exist then, we'll understand it completely. The earth isn't the center of the universe, and there are planets like ours, but we can't see shit of the planets outside our milky way. So there's no way we can tell if we are the only ones out there...

Cuz when god created this all for us, why so big, and why so many dangers like meteors and stuff?

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I don't believe that God made the earth look like millions of years old, but with you saying its a hell of a job to do that, I have to say...this is God we're talking about He can do anything, making the earth look really old (even though I don't think he did it) would be a joke to Him.

I think when you say that you can explain everything by saying 'it was god!!' There's just no logic in making a planet looking older than it is, or making a shitload of universe, for just one planet... Sorry, my opinion is if you just say 'it was god'.. you're ignorant...

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Astrologer? I believe it's Stephen Hawking (theoretical physicist) who theorizes the Big Bang originated from a black hole. I read his latest book, "Universe in a Nutshell", some many months back that showed the process with simple diagrams from a 'singular' point exploding out like a cone.

Yeah, that's him, i read that book fastly... But that point in time you're talking about IS the big bang, according to his book. And the time is then Pear-shaped, because of the bedning caused by the early matter flying in space.

Also a pity you didn't answer my question:

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If there's One God, why are there so many people on this planet believing in something else? Wouldn't that implicate that nothing of al that is true? Or that a lot of people(from all but one religion) are very stupid?

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I suck at making a sig...

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Originally posted by DjSuez I think when you say that you can explain everything by saying 'it was god!!' There's just no logic in making a planet looking older than it is, or making a shitload of universe, for just one planet... Sorry, my opinion is if you just say 'it was god'.. you're ignorant...

I specifically said, TWICE, that I don't believe that God tried to make the planet look older. I don't disagree that there's no logic in it. What whoever that guy was saying is that "its a whole lot of work to do", and I'm saying, it being a lot of work is no explanation because God can do anything in a second. This has nothing to do with God being the explanation of everything.

___________________

Tunes that'll kick your azz:

Tony Walker - Field of Joy (Original Mix)
DJ Centaury & Wavetraxx - Dark Angel (Original Club Mix)
Flutlicht - Icarus (Original Daedalus Mix)

quote:

Sorry man but i think u are misunderstanding what was said. I think what he means is that the bible was meant to be guide and the events entailed there did not literally happen. It doesn't mean he doesn't believe in the bible. It means just, he believes in the moral lessons of the bible, not that those actual events happened. U can faith in the lessons of the bible without having to believe those events actually happened can't u? Unless, u are implying that by being catholic u have to absolutely believe everything in the bible actually happened. If thats what u mean, i don't have any insight on that so maybe u can elaborate a little further. As for his comment on christians who aren't "real christians" he is referring to people who judge other people based on the beliefs in the bible. Sorry i agree with him there. If anything, christians are supposed to spread the word of God. Alot of these so called "christians" use it as a base to judge other people. People who walk up to me and say ur going to hell if u don't believe in God and things of that nature are wrong. They are using the bible as a standard to judge me. God will deliever his decision on me on judgement day. No other person will tell me what he or she thinks God intended from their simple interpretation of the bible. These are the people i believe he is referring to as "christians who aren't christians." And in that context i am inclined to agree. I am not saying this to look down upon christians and such because i was one of them. But, criticizing and judging other people from the standards of the bible is not Gods work. If anything its prejudicial. and it goes on in every church.Judging people doesn't spread the word of the gospel any.

Thanks Elysium. You got it spot on. I felt a little offended for a second when he literally called me "ignorant" but then i read ur post

Im sorry i got the info wrong about that bloke who turned out to be fake.

Dj suez: -

Everyone believing in the bible and god an so on, is making up excuses for people saying that the bible isn't true. A century ago people just said everything in the bible is true. With more and more evidence coming wich reject this, christians are more and more saying that it's ment not literrally etc. I think that's weak, with all do respect. You just have to stay by what you stabd for, and not change your opinion because you can't hold it anymore...

This comes back to the term free will here because ur saying that we should continue the old belief of where we take the bible literally. Well, there are 3 views on the bible that are all accepted by the catholic church - learnt that in R.E (hehe i did learn somet at school )
Also id like to know what evidence there is to say the bible isnt true? All i can say is that if the bible isnt true, who cares? People who are associated with the church help others and do some fantastic things for others. Im not saying that everyone in the church is, because well lets be honest, all the child molesters who are priests are sick, and its a disgrace wot image they give the church! but people like mother taresa, and the current Pope John Paul, who has just been to Canada and now in Poland, hey do so much stuff to help, other people.

Man has grown to be curious about the things around him, space, the earth, everything, its only natural. I believe that only God can answer some questions that man have, which is allot of questions that people in the world have.

Matt

all i am saying is that you MUST take the bible as the word of god, if you just "interpret it" then you cannot know anything about your religion! you can't know anything, maybe Heaven and Hell is just a metaphor.

some people claim to be Christians, but then they have shaky views on the Bible.... I mean...WHY ARE YOU CHRISTIAN AGAIN?

if you meant something else, then you shouldn't be offended.

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The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.

The bible is like trying to fix an Imac with a Commodore 64 manual...

you must believe that the bible is error free or the whole christian belief falls apart. Then again.....ckeer is wrong because he makes a statement and cannot back it up with fact.

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Originally posted by torontotrance you must believe that the bible is error free or the whole christian belief falls apart. Then again.....ckeer is wrong

Can you prove I am wrong my friend? The bible still says that the Earth is the center of the universe...but we have scientific proof it isn't..So blind faith turned out to be worng. (along with darwin theory and so on)

what proof

the second law of thermodynamics states the world is going from order to disorder.....not the disorder to order that evolutionists believe. Then again, no one has proven this law wrong yet, it also means the earth is winding down not up.

Darwin's theory was so flawed it was not funny, darwin made too many assumptions. I'll get into that at a later date....

If you are going to diss someone......read up on it.....don't assume things.