quote:

Originally posted by tranceraverla I loved his tune JAWA. With that said, J00F needs to lighten up a bit. Negativity doesn't have a place in this highly competitive scene. I advise choosing positive vibes and a bright outlook. If J00F really doesn't like the DJ Mag poll he should just not talk about it at all. He's giving it credit by blasting its name out there and coming off as a very jealous DJ. Not good when you want to attract more fans. That's my two cents.

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I concur

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lol whats up with this one guy making 3 alts to concur with his bashing. moderator pm'd. gee i wonder who he works for, derp.

quote:

Originally posted by pointPi I'd like to go one step further and say that DJ's are downright useless. Back in the 70's, the only way one could possibly have a listen to the latest music (at least in disco music) was by going to the place where the local DJ was playing. But thanks to the internet, I can access all the music of the world so easily I've never felt the need for a local DJ (or even MTV anymore for that matter). As the columnist said it's only, in our particular case, the producers who should be getting all the artistic appreciation.

If this is where your conception of the music rests, it's easy to understand why you've attempted to construct a comparative metaphor between music and gaming and the people, there-in, mostly because that metaphor is as invalid as your concept of the music, itself. As a measure of success, it could be said that all electronic/dance music has evolved to an intellectual stage where the milieu of a night-club or rave is no longer needed to either validate it for its mere utility as the sound-track dominating the late night out or simply to make it accessible as well as acceptable for listening to outside of such places. It's not that you don't enjoy it "properly" or even that your enjoyment of it reeks of a stagnation in your taste. Rather, it's that you're operating with an incomplete picture and one which is woefully neglected when making such claims.

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I don't really think it will be hard to get other dj/producers involved in this

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Originally posted by Scoops i love J00F rants but he lost me when associated Tribal with TWILO

I see you're from the US, for many years genres have got lost in translation over the Atlantic.
I'm talking about the British use of the word.
The same confusion often happens with British Hard House and US Hard House. It's a common topic that occurs especially between the European and US offices of Beatport.
Hope that clears that one up for you

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't really understand how getting a high placing on the DJ Mag poll will stimulate the underground scene. I just don't see the causality, just vague talk of "unlocking doors" and "convincing promoters". The whole problem with the DJ Mag poll is that the promoters who value it are idiots. You don't want to convince them of anything, you want to stop working with them. Get higher up on the DJ Mag poll and you're simply going to get more booking offers for the kind of events you hate. Feel free to explain a clear methodology to me, but I don't think this is the solution. Moreover, I agree that trance, perhaps more than another genre, has completely ossified into separate commercial and underground strata that have nothing to do with each other. It's probably impossible at this point to recreate a trance scene where credible music achieves widespread and unforced popularity. These things have to occur organically. Trance music in the '90s encapsulated a certain cultural zeitgeist, a mixture of millenial futurist excitement, predominant stylistic currents and the popularity of certain drugs. In 2011 the clubbing landscape is radically different. There are styles of underground music that explode and, at least temporarily, hit the sweet spot between artistic merit and widespread popularity. Nobody can really explain why dubstep took off so well, but it did it through word-of-mouth, press interest and a sense of striking a communal chord. I personally think trance has come and gone as a movement, and now it will only exist in this binary state of underground scene for devotees and ultra-commercialised caricature for the kids.

That's exactly why I'm here and value all of your opinions and I'm here to chat and discuss it. All of the posts and replies are really useful.
I just care for the more serious side of Trance, something that seems to becoming a smaller commodity and almost forgotten about.

I disagree when I hear a few people saying 'the good days wont come back'. I've been in this industry a long time and seen a couple of these commercial cycles come and go. I've been sat at debates wondering how things can break free from the commercial intrusion over the years, and eventually they do. We're at this point in time again.

I know for sure, thousands of people don't bother going out these days because there is nowhere for them to go. It's those very people that will support the new DJ's, the new promoters, clubs nights etc.
I promise you it will come.

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Originally posted by John 00 Fleming I know for sure, thousands of people don't bother going out these days because there is nowhere for them to go. It's those very people that will support the new DJ's, the new promoters, clubs nights etc. I promise you it will come.

Thank you... My problem exactly! I live in Berlin and there's no(!) Trance scene here at all. I have the choice between "high-heel" House, boring Minimal Techno/Tech-House and Progressive Psytrance. That's pretty much it...no, wait, I forgot Dark-Psy... -.-

Anyway, we as a community should support people like JonDC, who posted a bit earlier. His Entropy Nights are a nice change back to the roots. As far as I understand he trys to combine the Progressive, Trance and Psychedelic scene into one night to expose the audience to a somewhat wider spectrum of influences.

p.s.: It's so nice to see that there's still a proper discussion able to be made here in the forum.

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quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming I disagree when I hear a few people saying 'the good days wont come back'. I've been in this industry a long time and seen a couple of these commercial cycles come and go. I've been sat at debates wondering how things can break free from the commercial intrusion over the years, and eventually they do. We're at this point in time again.

I'm not talking about a commercial cycle for the club scene, I'm talking about the ability of trance music to connect with large numbers of young people. I heard some kid at work the other day talking about when he went to a beach party in Thailand and "some DJ was playing a shit trance tune for about half an hour". You say thousands of people don't go out because there's nothing for them, but how many of those people are the eager 18 year old kids who will drive this scene for the next decade? I think even if you played most of today's kids trance from 1997 or 1999 it's not going to capture their imagination.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm not talking about a commercial cycle for the club scene, I'm talking about the ability of trance music to connect with large numbers of young people. I heard some kid at work the other day talking about when he went to a beach party in Thailand and "some DJ was playing a shit trance tune for about half an hour". You say thousands of people don't go out because there's nothing for them, but how many of those people are the eager 18 year old kids who will drive this scene for the next decade? I think even if you played most of today's kids trance from 1997 or 1999 it's not going to capture their imagination.

That bit wasn't aimed at you
Another chap earlier on in the topic was pretty persistent saying this.

This is always a difficult topic, as i do sympathize with people who don't have access to a local scene they can call their home. The only thing that strikes me as problematic, is that what is being suggested here sounds a bit like fighting fire with fire.

The idea of a localized scene forcing a single musical idea is too reminiscent of a state of - pardon the dutchisism - unitysausage. In other words: It's great for the people that enjoy the music, and DJ's will undoubtedly find it very cosy. But what about the people that don't like, in this case, trance? It's like a musical technocracy.
Though it is true that people in many cases will start enjoying the music when you violently jam it into their heads (hence the popularity of commercial music), it comes at the cost of diversity and is not something an underground scene should want to associate with. Even if the intentions are good.

Trance music may just be were it belongs now, Genres often temporarily take off and then start settle in their respective niches. The underground trance scene has very little to offer for the masses, with it's charms being abstract and rather druggy in nature, and it's rythmic structures unrefined and eccentric. It's a rather big leap of faith to suggest that there are hundreds if not thousands of people sitting at home waiting for something to happen.

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Last edited by Bierheld on Jul-27-2011 at 15:20

quote:

Originally posted by John 00 Fleming I know for sure, thousands of people don't bother going out these days because there is nowhere for them to go. It's those very people that will support the new DJ's, the new promoters, clubs nights etc.

This is 100% true. There are indeed many of us out there that just don’t bother with the club scene anymore today. I do truly hope that this does change in the near future. One of the reasons is because I feel that the clubbers today aren’t going out for the music anymore and the DJ can play any garbage and the people won’t give a damn whatsoever.
I and many others would like to hear quality music when we go out and want to hear the DJ to take us to a journey. I don’t think that is the case with 90% of the Dj’s out there today. I’m all for bringing back the specialists scene and will do all I can on my end to make it a reality.

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I appreciate 00's sentiments expressed in the original post but tend to think that ignoring the poll (and building something awesome that doesn't rely on it whatsoever) is the way to go. Work outside of the system instead of within it, essentially. That poll (or something like it) will always be around as long as there are promoters who need a fame metric. It might be terribly corrupt and inaccurate, but for some people it provides the closest thing to an objective quality measure as you are likely to find in electronic dance music culture.