You nailed the current consensus, people are more impresseed with a pitch shifting LFO or phased drum sweep or samples chopped up from 16th to 64th and used as uplifter etc etc than any musical content behind it.

The current complextro shit is just a showcase of youtube Massive tutorials, when you take all of that stuff out there is very little left. And the weird thing? A lot of people don't judge anymore on a great melody or great progression. If the song lacks above then it's called a "dated sound"

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux FX are a part of the composition. It's not fair to judge an EDM track on how it sounds without FX.

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quote:

Originally posted by Raphie You nailed the current consensus, people are more impresseed with a pitch shifting LFO or phased drum sweep or samples chopped up from 16th to 64th and used as uplifter etc etc than any musical content behind it. The current complextro shit is just a showcase of youtube Massive tutorials, when you take all of that stuff out there is very little left. And the weird thing? A lot of people don't judge anymore on a great melody or great progression. If the song lacks above then it's called a "dated sound"

You can be so ignorant Raphie. Almost every popular "complextro" track has a melodic breakdown to complement the fact that the basslines are generally one note. Every single one of my "complextro" tracks has a melodic breakdown with chord progressions and emotional undertones.

"Complextro" and dubstep are about sound design and doing something creative - granted, not everyone does, but how many trance tunes are there with rolling basslines, way too much reverb and droning pads? I don't think there's anything flawed with finding the timbre and character of the sounds just as interesting as the melody...

And I'm just as against "Massive Tutorial House" as any decent electro house producer is. You realize we hate that shit too? Because we can tell... there's a reason Knife Party's EP was called "100% No Modern Talking." That's because it's a Massive oscillator that's present in practically every mediocre electro track that winds up on Beatport. Reason being? Because it's incredibly fucking easy to use one oscillator with an LFO on the wavetable & make the synth talk. If you search growling synth on YouTube practically every tutorial is just telling you to put an LFO on the Modern Talking waveform...

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quote:

Originally posted by Seandroid And I'm just as against "Massive Tutorial House" as any decent electro house producer is. You realize we hate that shit too? Because we can tell...

Interesting: There is a "we" this means you think there is also a "them" (and also means you consider yourself part of a hip group of "decent" electro house producers....)
for "me" the battle over how cool (or dreaded) the "modern talking" patch in Massive is, EXACTLY explains my point. It's a near daily judgement call that dictates what's hip or not. They're all sheep, jumping on and running after the bandwagon.... The battle is being fought on which Massive based effect tutorial trick is hip and which is dated... you realize how narrow minded your "decent electro house producer" reference really is?

Just my old fart 41 year old opinion. You're VERY far away from Knife party or any of the other complextro shite you admire with the music you try to make.
but that's a good thing. "if you try to be even more like what you call "us", you loose that last bit of identity which currently makes your music nice to listen to. Think about it. The identity in your current music is your LACK to sound like "us" embrace that and don't let go......

What's even more ignorant is that "we" think dat "them" lack skill to apply the cool youtube "fx" tutorials. Not using them is CHOICE, very ignorant to bring not sounding "hip" down to lack of skill.......
as it merely is just applying what you see on YT

Geoff said it very well, it's about how your music makes you feel. translating your emotion into sound or story.
It's not about your "skill" to sound "nu" that's only the sugercoating, without any substance underneath that means jack shit....

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Last edited by Raphie on May-18-2012 at 09:06

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Interesting: There is a "we" this means you think there is also a "them" (and also means you consider yourself part of a hip group of "decent" electro house producers....) for "me" the battle over how cool (or dreaded) the "modern talking" patch in Massive is, EXACTLY explains my point. It's a near daily judgement call that dictates what's hip or not. They're all sheep, jumping on and running after the bandwagon.... The battle is being fought on which Massive based effect tutorial trick is hip and which is dated... you realize how narrow minded your "decent electro house producer" reference really is? Just my old fart 41 year old opinion. You're VERY far away from Knife party or any of the other complextro shite you admire with the music you try to make. but that's a good thing. "if you try to be even more like what you call "us", you loose that last bit of identity which currently makes your music nice to listen to. Think about it. The identity in your current music is your LACK to sound like "us" embrace that and don't let go...... What's even more ignorant is that "we" think dat "them" lack skill to apply the cool youtube "fx" tutorials. Not using them is CHOICE, very ignorant to bring not sounding "hip" down to lack of skill....... as it merely is just applying what you see on YT Geoff said it very well, it's about how your music makes you feel. translating your emotion into sound or story. It's not about your "skill" to sound "nu" that's only the sugercoating, without any substance underneath that means jack shit....

Uh, no, there's a "we" as in the people who make the music you hate so much (which includes me, regardless of how talented you think or don't think I am). And no, the reason everyone has a problem with the Modern Talking oscillator is the same reason people have a problem with supersaws... it's because it's so ubiquitous it comes across as uncreative and lazy. It has nothing to do with whatever "Youtube tutorial" is popular. It's not narrow minded to say that people who are good producers generally try to avoid using the same samples or synth patches as everyone else...

And the reason you think my music bares no resemblance to the "complextro" you hate so much is because I stopped posting most of my music here because I'm well aware of how closed minded and bitchy this forum is when it comes to that genre of music. Most of what I post here is music I think Tranceaddict will be able to at least kind of appreciate.


Just in case you don't believe me, here's what I'm working on right now:



And every single noise you hear in there is something I made myself and I didn't learn any of that shit from YouTube tutorials because I've made a concerted effort to avoid them like the plague.

I could give you a billion examples of electro house that fits your descriptors yet is still filled with emotion and vision but I've done this so many times that it's getting old and nobody here seems willing to open their incredibly closed minds even a TINY bit to see that.

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Sean, above example is nothing new. it's a bit of vowel bass type patch with a pitched osc. how can you consider that being any different any any of those tutorials? ever since Chuckie and LMFAO started with "Im'in ***** bitch!" this pitching has been the most DREADED effect ever. regardless if you do it with a vowel type bass or not. It's NOT creative refreshing and it has no vision.... the track on Colors resonates with me because of the melody the bombastic parts and the groove used on the the tut tut tududutuut quantize. There nothing wrong with certain sounds like supersaws, it depends on how you use them? You bitch about the "Modern Talking" patch, yet all of your recent examples including above have a vowel and pitch shifting effect in there....... so what is it that you "hate" about that patch? I don't get it?

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quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Sean, above example is nothing new. it's a bit of vowel bass type patch with a pitched osc. how can you consider that being any different any any of those tutorials? ever since Chuckie and LMFAO started with "Im'in ***** bitch!" this pitching has been the most DREADED effect ever. regardless if you do it with a vowel type bass or not. It's NOT creative refreshing and it has no vision.... the track on Colors resonates with me because of the melody the bombastic parts and the groove used on the the tut tut tududutuut quantize. There nothing wrong with certain sounds like supersaws, it depends on how you use them? You bitch about the "Modern Talking" patch, yet all of your recent examples including above have a vowel and pitch shifting effect in there....... so what is it that you "hate" about that patch? I don't get it?

It's actually like 4 vowel bass synths that are made in FM8 and Massive - but it's ABSOLUTELY different than the tutorials. How the hell do you not get this? The whole point with complextro is that the timbre of the synthesizers acts effectively as the melody. So, while yes, lots of complextro does use vowel sounds, they're all using the same oscillator to get the effect. It's not even like a supersaw where you're playing a different melody, it's literally that everyone is just using the EXACT SAME SOUND.


And actually, you're completely confused as to how the hell you make any of these sounds, what you think sounds like pitch bends is actually the resonance and position of bandpass/bandreject filters moving on multiple LFOs to create and modify the vocal formants. Then I actually used an equalizer to enhance the vocal formants. or in FM8s case many different oscillators affecting each other and coming in at different points using envelopes & LFOs.

Modern Talking is basically a fucking preset. It's ONE oscillator and all you have to do is move the damn position in the wavetable and it goes "YYYOOOIII." Yes it's a vocal sound, but you have absolutely no room for creativity, the most you could do is distort it or add some white noise or something.

My music sounds absolutely nothing like LMFAO or Chuckie and if you're going to whine about the resonance then you'd be smarter to compare it to acid house than dutch house.


EDIT:

Basically, the best way I can explain this to you is this. Think of the vocal formants as a melody, and now listen to how ridiculous this is:

Why could you possibly want to play a melody using a guitar when you could play it on this piano? It's the same! How can you say you don't like the sound of pianos!?!?

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Last edited by Seandroid on May-18-2012 at 10:03

I'm not comparing you with Chuckie or LMFAO, they're on a different level. And have been around from a long time before you knew them from "Party Rock anthem" They used the pitched effect already when you where still wearing nappies. I'm just suprised that you still use it. It's hardly forward thinking, there is only so much you can do with it: up or down...........

So you narrow this down using vowel based sounds, but not presets..... wow that's REALLY narrow minded. To the audience (ahem... the not "us" self acclaimed hip electroproducers) it's just another fucking LAME pitched vowel based patch. no one gives jack shit if you made it yourself or if you grabbed another preset pack, it's a fucking vowel patch for god sake..... The result is the same, the listeners experience is the same "FFS not yet another vowel pitched track" or "wow another awesome vowelbased track" (these are the "we" electrohouse youtube produca's)

There is more variation in supersaws (basically being saw oscs) than vowel based patches. This only even more proves the "jump the bandwagon to make "credible" electrohouse music" all those vowel pitched crap is sheep behaviour.......

But i get it, you're sixteen now, you probably rolled into this when being 12 or 14, appreciating your first boner, missing all heritage some of the old farts have.

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Last edited by Raphie on May-18-2012 at 10:10

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie I'm not comparing you with Chuckie or LMFAO, they used the pitched effect already when you where still wearing nappies. I'm just suprised that you still use it. It's hardly forward thinking, there is only so much you can do with it: up or down........... So you narrow this down using vowel based sounds, but not presets..... wow that's REALLY narrow minded. To the audience (ahem... the not "us" self acclaimed hip electroproducers) it's just another fucking LAME pitched vowel based patch. no one gives jack shit if you made it yourself or if you grabben another preset pack, it's a fucking vowel patch for god sake..... There is more variation in supersaws (basically being saw oscs) than vowel based patches. This only even more proves the "jump the bandwagon to make "credible" electrohouse music" all those vowel pitched crap is sheep behaviour.......

Jeeeeesus Raphie. You're going to make me rage, how can you be this thickheaded?


You didn't even read my damn post, you just continued to spew this crap. None of my synthesizers are actually pitching up and down, that's what it sounds like when you modify vocal formants... it's not even remotely the same thing. NONE of my synths are attached to a pitch bend.

I didn't call myself a fucking hip electro producer... why are you being so derogatory and condescending? I'm trying to explain why someone might possibly find this genre interesting and you're putting words in my mouth. It's almost like you don't have an argument.

There ISN'T more variation in supersaws than vowel based patches. In fact that's the stupidest fucking thing you've said thus far. You're just being ignorant and blind because you don't listen to the music and you judge it at face value.

If you tried to get me to distinguish who made a variety of trance tracks I wouldn't be able to, because I'm not familiar with the nuances of the genre - I mean, I find an awful lot of it horrendously boring, and as opposed to being actually emotional, a lot closer to someone screaming "HEY YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE SAD RIGHT NOW YOU STUPID FUCK" in my face. That doesn't mean I don't try to understand and appreciate how someone could enjoy it.

You on the other hand are refusing to even read what I'm trying to say and insulting me personally...

quote:

But i get it, you're sixteen now, you probably rolled into this when being 12 or 14, appreciating your first boner, missing all heritage some of the old farts have.

I'm 18, but regardless, go fuck yourself. That was just fucking stupid and unecessary.

I'm done having a conversation with you because you're just insulting me personally, not listening to ANYTHING I have to say and behaving an awful lot more like a child than I am and you're fucking 40.

I get it, you think I'm a talentless hack unless i produce the shit you listen to.

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Complextro:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8zzG4n8CpM

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Analogue Mastering
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quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Complextro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8zzG4n8CpM

Yup because all your pads and plucked melodies are so god damned original, hey? I mean, your tracks certainly don't sound anything even REMOOTTEEELLYYY like Deadmau5 and Eric Prydz.....

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Sean I've read all you wrote. you ARE talented, but what your doing is not forward thinking. It doesn't matter whether you asign a control to a pitchbend stick, use the pitchbend itself of use the osc directly or trigger it via an LFO. Of have it spread out over your keyboard. NO ONE CARES....... The sound pitch goes up or down in an sustained way, it's all the same......

Appreciated, there might be guys giving you credit saying "wow you vowel based lead is really different than the "modern talking" lead, KUDO's man!!!" but for the avg listener it's just another vowelpatch

other presetpushers might ask: "which patchnumber is that? and what pack it's coming from?" (totally ignoring your programming skills)

your idea of gratification might be very relevant within the complextro community. But from a holistic point of view, there is nothing seperating you from the genre, let alone be innovative, other than your signature melodies and how you play them. and for me your "songwriting" is what makes your music interesting to me, not your vowel or pitchshifting patch design skills. even more I would like oyur songs more when you would choose at bit more warm "traditional" (pun intended) sounds

but then again opinions are like assholes, everybody has got one...

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Last edited by Raphie on May-18-2012 at 10:29