quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN One thing I don't get about your setup Raphie, is why you're trying to use analogue desks especially when automation is thrown in to the mix. You'd be better off going digital control surfaces like Euphonix MC range and then patching to/from (say via MADI) to pristine converters and outboard. At the moment you're doing at least two full passes of Digital to analogue conversion, so any perceived benefit is going to be negated.

I think he's using it to give the individual elements color/analog warmth and to route them to effects? I don't think he's doing any automation. I could be wrong though.

quote:

Originally posted by jayxthekoolest I think he's using it to give the individual elements color/analog warmth and to route them to effects? I don't think he's doing any automation. I could be wrong though.

don't do automation and only do 1 pass conversion
The SSL's are mainly used for summing at channel level (mirrorring the channels in the DAW) subgroups and analogue inserts for my compressors.
The daw is used for eq and fx
There is a single AD (synth to Alphalink) and AD cycle (Alphalink to mixer) then summed in analogue domain with my outboard compressors inserted where needed, resulting in a single pass stereo mixdown back into DAW.

I don't mind the Alphalink AD <> DA too much, it gives me ITB flexibillity and at least recall on the fx and EQ and channel mapping. Gain is staged via the mixer faders of the SSL and the upside is really on my outboard being inserted on it's mixbus, rather then patched as external fx in DAW, the BIG sound from the summing and it's main insert.

At the end of the day, connecting synth directly to mixer, but using i.e. a Lexicon on the sends also involves AD <> DA for the wett CHA (and Valhalla is soooo good)

I might start experimenting with connecting Valhalla via send return to the SSL desk and send the synths directly into the desks, but the I still lack CHA EQ, maybe a 500 rack with 10 Lindell PEX 500's may sort that

The routeabillity and signal path of the X-desk are top notch
Control surfaces are not for me as i prefer the OTB weighty sound.

Mind you, I never track individual channels back into DAW, in order to start mixing stage ith recorded synth material. All synths are used once and when all used my song is full. So no "tracking stage" and "mixing stage" for me. Every mixdown is 1 pass realtime from sequenced midi to stereo master, I know my room and gear, so I never need to seperately master my own songs, it's all taken care of during the mixdown.

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Last edited by Raphie on Mar-17-2013 at 07:50

Did you ever look at the TOFT ATB desks? They seem to be suspiciously cheap for a lot of lush, and I can't really find much negative about them on teh webz.

I notice that SX are doing an ATB32 with meterbridge, Antelope Orion 32 and 4 multicores for just under £9.5k.

Granted, that's a lot of money, but it's also a pretty neat front end for a GAS suffering home user with a lot of hardware to hook up

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That combo is sweet too.

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quote:

Originally posted by Raphie don't do automation and only do 1 pass conversion The SSL's are mainly used for summing at channel level (mirrorring the channels in the DAW) subgroups and analogue inserts for my compressors. The daw is used for eq and fx There is a single AD (synth to Alphalink) and AD cycle (Alphalink to mixer) then summed in analogue domain with my outboard compressors inserted where needed, resulting in a single pass stereo mixdown back into DAW. I don't mind the Alphalink AD <> DA too much, it gives me ITB flexibillity and at least recall on the fx and EQ and channel mapping. Gain is staged via the mixer faders of the SSL and the upside is really on my outboard being inserted on it's mixbus, rather then patched as external fx in DAW, the BIG sound from the summing and it's main insert. At the end of the day, connecting synth directly to mixer, but using i.e. a Lexicon on the sends also involves AD <> DA for the wett CHA (and Valhalla is soooo good) I might start experimenting with connecting Valhalla via send return to the SSL desk and send the synths directly into the desks, but the I still lack CHA EQ, maybe a 500 rack with 10 Lindell PEX 500's may sort that The routeabillity and signal path of the X-desk are top notch Control surfaces are not for me as i prefer the OTB weighty sound. Mind you, I never track individual channels back into DAW, in order to start mixing stage ith recorded synth material. All synths are used once and when all used my song is full. So no "tracking stage" and "mixing stage" for me. Every mixdown is 1 pass realtime from sequenced midi to stereo master, I know my room and gear, so I never need to seperately master my own songs, it's all taken care of during the mixdown.

Hang on, this doesn't make any sense. It physically can't be one pass if you're coming out of your DAW, in to the desk for the summing then back in to the computer for recording. That's two conversions right there, however you cook it.

Sorry not trying to be a twat (it's just a natural ability with me ) but that's why I was suggesting keeping everything digital unless you're doing analogue inserts.

this is like gearslutz but somehow worse in that the guys on gearslutz were making music ala 1970s. I think you people are fucking crazy. I mean if you have fun, cool. But you won't find any of the break thru sound designers doing rad shit going back to the old days. People are using all the tools in ways they were not supposed to be used. And thats what i think is tits. I embrace technology. Some of it is rubbish, most isn't. And you can still own your synth that sounds so fucking fat that you have to eq so hard the phase distortion creates a wormwhole.


and if i had alot of money, would buy that neve console and make dave grohl watch as I piss on it ( i mean i will drink alot of water so the pee is ph neutral ) but god damn that guy annoys me. Just watched the documentary and you have Rupert talking about his creation and then these monkey faces from dave grohl. I just can't stand idiots. if you don't understand, pretend. Don't fucking act like his level is something you should be giggling at. I mean the guys has money, seems to love music, take a fucking remedial class or something. honestly, i felt like the DP should of just walked in the frame and slapped him.

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Mar-23-2013 at 04:09

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Hang on, this doesn't make any sense. It physically can't be one pass if you're coming out of your DAW, in to the desk for the summing then back in to the computer for recording. That's two conversions right there, however you cook it. Sorry not trying to be a twat (it's just a natural ability with me ) but that's why I was suggesting keeping everything digital unless you're doing analogue inserts.

Rann not sure you're stuck on semantics:

Source
Individual cha in Daw (daw eq, plugin fx happen here while digital)
Individual cha into X-Desk, here i sum AND use my analogue outboard in the same cycle, the result is a stereomix, ready for printing on the mixbus

NOW - one can choose to capture this output to a lotbof media, in a lot of formats, analogue media like tape, cassettedeck etc, or digital media (daw, dat, dcc, minidisk, sdcard) i just happen to choose my daw here as it's most convienient.

But the 2nd conversion is somewhere inherent to mixdown, one needs tp capture ouput somwhere.

In an IDEAL world one would like to have a full analogue channelstrip on each cha, with eq and compression together with outboard fx on it's sends. And totally avoid daw staying analog all the way. But i don't mind the 1 conversion to leverage all goodies in a daw channelstrip. Think about it: having your instrument converted digital in daw, or in an outboard lexicon processor is merely the same thing, just a different part of the signal flow.

Bottom line, once your in the box, if you want to leverage external summing AND analogue inserts in the same pass you need to get OTB. But the advantages FAR outweight the theoretical conversion degration. Makes more sense for you now?

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Last edited by Raphie on Mar-23-2013 at 11:11

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney I think you people are fucking crazy. I mean if you have fun, cool. But you won't find any of the break thru sound designers doing rad shit going back to the old days.

Sometimes I'm not sure if you have fun, or at least not when it comes to music. You see I started making music again after a long break a few years ago for fun, and it just turned out that I started making money out of it as well. The hardware purchases aren't a business decision, they're a hobby decision. Like other people play golf, sniff powder or go skiing.

I find using a mouse and a screen a chore.

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i don't know. It isn't really fun like hahahah yay this is fun but I can't wait to wake up and do music.

I think the most limiting part of this back to analog is that you are still using a sequencer. Still using rigid groove templates. I just don't get the point. It can't be about workflow. Nobody can reach without getting up all these things. I think the main motivation is an inferiority complex with the stuff software does and being hardware only is sort of a nice friendly place were you have no competition. or interest.

i find the biggest lie is this lack of tactile control. 3 ipads, a novation controller with fader and rotary bank and knowing how to use them will give you ridiculous amounts of control. ALl there in front of you.

i;m compiling a list of all my hardware to sell or see what i can get and its all just for show or fucking around. Well except the functional stuff like mics and what not. Probably about 100 000. Mostly because so many poors are selling stuff but i get it. But it isn't like anyone is actually using their modular stuff for practical stuff. Even my nord modulars, i use them for testing audio stuff as a hobby. Like math related understanings of audio. Well not entirely true, as i learn about dsp, i use them mainly as inputs for audio and a quick way to do something you know a synth can't do

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Last edited by Looney4Clooney on Mar-24-2013 at 03:37

Once my Cirklon is in, no more DAW sequencing

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quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney i don't know. It isn't really fun like hahahah yay this is fun but I can't wait to wake up and do music. I think the most limiting part of this back to analog is that you are still using a sequencer. Still using rigid groove templates. I just don't get the point. It can't be about workflow. Nobody can reach without getting up all these things. I think the main motivation is an inferiority complex with the stuff software does and being hardware only is sort of a nice friendly place were you have no competition. or interest. i find the biggest lie is this lack of tactile control. 3 ipads, a novation controller with fader and rotary bank and knowing how to use them will give you ridiculous amounts of control. ALl there in front of you. i;m compiling a list of all my hardware to sell or see what i can get and its all just for show or fucking around. Well except the functional stuff like mics and what not. Probably about 100 000. Mostly because so many poors are selling stuff but i get it. But it isn't like anyone is actually using their modular stuff for practical stuff. Even my nord modulars, i use them for testing audio stuff as a hobby. Like math related understanings of audio. Well not entirely true, as i learn about dsp, i use them mainly as inputs for audio and a quick way to do something you know a synth can't do

The point for me is to be as free as possible. At some point I'll be jamming away and I will want more parts playing than I have hands available to play them, so as Raphie has discovered there are solutions away from a DAW that can more quickly allow you to get some phrases and loops going. The desk is there to provide a fast hands on solution to levels, panning and sends. Interactive as you say.

There's no commercial reason to do it, it's just 'because I can'.

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