quote:

Originally posted by davinox cuz it sounds like bullshit to me.

it is.

whatever happened to: if its too good to be true, it probably is

Im still on the fence when i comes to religion

Maybe God talking to people IS their subconscious, as someone pointed out above. By talking though, I mean from what they have been taught at the mosque, church, temple, etc. If someone truly believes in their religion, can't it be expected from them to live by their life praticing what they have been taught? Thinking subconsciously about the deeper issues in life, and asking for guidance from God, but receiving it from their subconscious instead because the subconscious knows the answer in accordance with what the person believes is right. Maybe the faith in such people is so strong that they believe it is God. But as far as I know, God only spoke to his prophets.

On the other hand, I do believe in the existence of God. I believe that he has laid our destinies out for us and we are following the path he has chosen for each and everyone of us. So, then, if our paths are set out, why would God speak to us? After all God is the one who set our paths out.

PS: I don't mean to offend anyone, these are my own personal thoughts. So no flames please.

When you talk to God it's faith. When he talks back it's schizophrenia.

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"my son will be a gienues(sp?)" - Originally posted by Googooly
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actually i think i am right about the definition of agonist.

quote:

The universe wasn't always there because it is something finite, not infinite, therefore it is not eternal and has to be created at some point in time.

i understand you when you say the universe is finite, but i don't follow your logic when you say that something infinite does not require a creator.
infinity is such a difficult thing to explain mathematically. is god infinite because he has to be omnipotent? this does not explain why he doesn't need a creator.

quote:

whatever happened to: if its too good to be true, it probably is

this is exactly my point. why have something unbelievable (infinite god) create something unbelievable (universe), when you can have just one unbelievable thing (universe).

i might be an idiot, but damn i'm enjoying myself

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huh?

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Russo Be careful now, agnosticism is really atheism if you don't continually address the issue of whether or not God exists.

Do I smell a straw man?

I have no more reason to postulate the existence of the Christian God than I do Zeus. No objective evidence exists to indicate the possibility of the existence of either.

Agnosticism

quote:

Originally posted by guetag "àçç àìåäéí ëîä èéôùéí òùéú àåúí?" ëïï ëïï àúí âåééí îñëðéí love u all!

he said god made you all dumb
this is the jewish stupidy!!!! this is why the world used\still hate us ( at least some of you =\ )
guetag. you dont understand shit....
there is no god, and if there is, i gerenty,
he dont fu**ing care what you would do.
let me ask one thing, let's leave the question, who created the universe, lets assume that there is god.
so the quesion is WHY??? Not how, not who.
did he got bored? did he wanted to see what happened if he'll creat a simulation of people? does he realy care if you eat milk and meat togheter?
fuck that.
but i know this won't convience anyone. cause everyone has a different logic, and this is logical question...
btw
for all the jewish here, if there is god , then why a let the Holocaust happen???
dont fucking tell me its cause we had been sin, if you saw what happend there, you should understand, that no matter what, no one desserve something like this.
and ill give you my own exemple, my grandmother is a survivor of the holocaust, all her familiy had died in the holocaust, and they were perfect "shomrey mitzvot" , so dont tell me shit about their were sin.
god is all psychologic!
at first , the man created the god, and not the other way around.
god is in your head people, cause you all afraid of what you dont know.
i say, believe if you wanna believe, but dont worship god cause this is such a stupid thing.
i have many more exemple of why i dont believe in god, but forget it.
let's just say i "know" there is no god.
not like the other's who "believe" in god.



Hofesh

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Last edited by nesher on Oct-08-2002 at 12:35

quote:

Originally posted by guetag some jewish are fucked too

exectly

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good on ya nesher.
your arguing on a different front, a more personal front. many ppl won't accept this biased view so therefore, i chose the logical front. its much easier anyway.
if god got bored he should of made some chicks for himself...and some trance.

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huh?

quote:

Originally posted by nesher he said god made you all dumb this is the jewish stupidy!!!! this is why the world used\still hate us ( at least some of you =\ ) guetag. you dont understand shit.... there is no god, and if there is, i gerenty, he dont fu**ing care what you would do. let me ask one thing, let's leave the question, who created the universe, lets assume that there is god. so the quesion is WHY??? Not how, not who. did he got bored? did he wanted to see what happened if he'll creat a simulation of people? does he realy care if you eat milk and meat togheter? fuck that. but i know this won't convience anyone. cause everyone has a different logic, and this is logical question... btw for all the jewish here, if there is god , then why a let the Holocaust happen??? dont fucking tell me its cause we had been sin, if you saw what happend there, you should understand, that no matter what, no one desserve something like this. and ill give you my own exemple, my grandmother is a survivor of the holocaust, all her familiy had died in the holocaust, and they were perfect "shomrey mitzvot" , so dont tell me shit about their were sin. god is all psychologic! at first , the man created the god, and not the other way around. god is in your head people, cause you all afraid of what you dont know. i say, believe if you wanna believe, but dont worship god cause this is such a stupid thing. i have many more exemple of why i dont believe in god, but forget it. let's just say i "know" there is no god. not like the other's who "believe" in god.

Why you ask...let's suppose there is a God..he created this system in which we now live..in most cases children are born from two parents..mom and dad who want nothing but the best from their own..yes as kids and even as adults we do wrong things..things that we feel are wrong..and even through the hardest times for the most part you parents stuck it through for your sake..why because they LOVE you and want to see you fulfill every dream you ever had..when you fell and wanted to get back up they were there with open arms..Mom and Dad couldn't be there when you robbed the candy store, witnessed a hit and run, murder, or even when you cheated on the one you love..but i'm sure for your sake they gave you the best advice and tried to lead you in what they think is the right direction..what your parents have for you is love and COMPASSION..the deep feeling of sharing the suffering of another(you),together with the inclination to support or show mercy..your parents have compassion for you as God has for us..well i dont know if it is the right answer, because im not God...but the word compassion is in everyones dictionary and i'll BELIEVE that this is the reason why it was put there..



whether you believe in God is up to you..but remember this if you question WHY, WHAT, WHEN...who are you asking? And if you don't have any questions cause you don't believe..then are you GOD?

Last edited by JPJH on Oct-08-2002 at 21:06

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Do I smell a straw man? I have no more reason to postulate the existence of the Christian God than I do Zeus. No objective evidence exists to indicate the possibility of the existence of either. Agnosticism

I don't know what you mean by the straw comment...

Anyways, think of it this way.
You die, and God exists. Did you live your life, developing a relationship with Him? No... so what distinguishes you from an atheist? Nothing. If you choose to think about it, it's one thing, but if you choose not to choose, in reality, you are choosing no whether you'll admit it to me or not.

quote:

Originally posted by dr me actually i think i am right about the definition of agonist.

First of all, you're not. It's not debatable, and I'm not going to waste my time!

quote:

Originally posted by dr me i understand you when you say the universe is finite, but i don't follow your logic when you say that something infinite does not require a creator. infinity is such a difficult thing to explain mathematically. is god infinite because he has to be omnipotent? this does not explain why he doesn't need a creator.

The more correct term is eternal. God is eternal (and infinite, or course)... now, something eternal could NEVER have a beginning, therefore NEVER have been created. Plus, God couldn't be created, because then God would not God because there would obviously be a higher power. Do you still not understand?

quote:

Originally posted by nesher there is no god, and if there is, i gerenty, he dont fu**ing care what you would do.

Hahaha... I assume by "gerenty" you mean "guarantee." And if that's the case, I guarantee that you are one of the stupidest persons I've ever had the pleasure of talking to. Don't go guaranteeing stuff you don't know about. First of all, I know you don't know anything because of your next comment (which I will address). Second of all, a person with an eigth of a brain knows its not good to go around GUARANTEEING that a higher power doesn't exist... especially when there is a great possibility He does.

quote:

Originally posted by nesher let me ask one thing, let's leave the question, who created the universe, lets assume that there is god. so the quesion is WHY??? Not how, not who. did he got bored? did he wanted to see what happened if he'll creat a simulation of people? does he realy care if you eat milk and meat togheter? fuck that. but i know this won't convience anyone. cause everyone has a different logic, and this is logical question...

Maybe you should study your faith? I thought that was mandatory or something.

You'll find the answer very easily. Just ask someone more intelligent than yourself.

I think the answer is shared by Jewish and Catholic theologians, and if it isn't is should be.

It's not a question of logic...

quote:

Originally posted by nesher for all the jewish here, if there is god , then why a let the Holocaust happen??? dont fucking tell me its cause we had been sin, if you saw what happend there, you should understand, that no matter what, no one desserve something like this. and ill give you my own exemple, my grandmother is a survivor of the holocaust, all her familiy had died in the holocaust, and they were perfect "shomrey mitzvot" , so dont tell me shit about their were sin.

It's not a question of "letting something happen".... ask the person you ask about why God created the world about this issue as well. Find a good rabbi...

quote:

Originally posted by Dmatrox if its too good to be true, it probably is

Bad argument, unless you're advocating the existence of God.
The fact that God exists means that there is sin... punishment... responsibility.
If God didn't exist life on Earth would be much easier!

the universe is NOT infinite.

if the universe was infinite there would be infinite possibilities coexisting at the same time, so if you travelled far enough you'd meet a planet exactly the same as earth except one molecule difference, etc. therefore, there would be infinite people, infinite religions, infinite beings, infinite planets, infinite everything. If you think about it, all of these infinite possibilities seems unlikely.

By the way, Agnostic is purely not placing your bets on any divine being. Most people in the Athiest-Agnostic category are in various stages of the two, and not one or the other, so the two are related. Pure athiests and pure agnostics are hard to find and often ignorant.

on a final note, we have absolutely no knowledge of the details of devine beings, faith can only be placed on what human beings have said. therefore, that is why people are atheist/agnostic, not because they are denying the existance of divine beings.

--and whatever i say is the truth, cuz i say so.

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The father made fetuses with flesh licking ladies / While you and your mother were asleep in the trailer park / Thunderous sparks from the dark of the stadiums / The music and medicine you needed for comforting / So make all your fat, fleshy fingers fingers to moving / And pluck all your silly strings and / Bend all your notes for me and / Soft silly music is meaningful, magical / The movements were beautiful / All in your ovaries / All of them milking with green fleshy flowers / While powerful pistons were sugary sweet machines, / Smelling of semen all under the garden / Was all you were needing when you still believed in me.