nice, never thought about it in a checks & balance way before... interesting to hear a valid arguement agianst gun registration.

jp you said "Guns kill OTHER people, drugs don't"
well drugs and their consequences can kill OTHER people and/or the users themselves, straight up thats a fact.
however, you're agianst outlawing drugs because you feel that the responisble people have a right to do what ever they like to their own body, especially when it makes them feel good (right?). i still dont see how that is different with guns. to some people having a gun makes them feel good. some like to shoot skeet in a farm, some like to hunt deer, some like the sense of security it gives them, other use it as a stress relief in a shooting range. should people give up the right to that kind of happeniness when it doesnt hurt anyone else? just becuase a select few use it for criminal acts does that mean we should ban all guns and take away that happiness from others? see where im taking this? maybe we should outlaw baseball bats form now on because in the hands of the wrong person they be used for vandalising and even to kill people....

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If God is the answer, it must have been a very stupid question.

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Originally posted by jploveparade Succesfull in what? We are one of the smallest countries in the world but we're the 8th economy in the world. Why? Instead of showing how bad ass we are with guns( like we did in the 17th century) we focused on our economy. Dutch companies are one of the biggest investors in the world (Shell, Unilever, Ahold, Philips, ABN-Amro etc) What a place to live, America.

jp, we are where you were at in the 1600's. where the english was in the 17-1800-ish. you guys have been around a lot longer than we have. you've also had the time to learn from your mistakes. you didn't offer the british any help on their rise or how to stay on top, but took your money and invested in british enterprises to get richer through their hard work, pull your investments out, let them collapse, invest somewhere else...
this is not an attack on you, just going over history. back in the nineties the joke around here was "which downtown building was not owned by the japanese." it's business. our government, our society, we are learning as we go along. you guys in europe are just afraid that we're going to blow ourselves up and you along with us. heh heh..

oh yeah forgot,
california is a state in the u.s.
it ranks #5 in the world!!

but no thanks to davis.

The real problem with gun control is all it does is restrict access to the law abbiding citizens. If you outlaw guns than all the people who want one incase someone breaks into there house are out of luck, but the criminals can still get them easily. Its so rediculosly easy that despite the fact that I've never owned a gun before, I could have one in my possesion in literally 5 minutes.

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Originally posted by SNAFU_man jp, we are where you were at in the 1600's. where the english was in the 17-1800-ish. you guys have been around a lot longer than we have. you've also had the time to learn from your mistakes. you didn't offer the british any help on their rise or how to stay on top, but took your money and invested in british enterprises to get richer through their hard work, pull your investments out, let them collapse, invest somewhere else... this is not an attack on you, just going over history. back in the nineties the joke around here was "which downtown building was not owned by the japanese." it's business. our government, our society, we are learning as we go along. you guys in europe are just afraid that we're going to blow ourselves up and you along with us. heh heh..

It's such a shame how Americans have started their own cold war in their country. The Constitution was made in 1789 (give or take a year) and people were allowed to carry guns to protect themselves in area's where the government wasn't in control yet. And to protect themselves from the English.

You might say that after th 1920's every part of the US was explored and placed under government control.

At that point you do not longer need guns. Ok, you might allow some farmers a riffle to protect them from bears (hehe...) but nothing more.

But instead of that, especially since the 1970's people got bigger and bigger firearms.

You want a gun to protect yourself? Look how nowadays you can buy 1000 different models with lasersights, automatic riffle's, shotguns etc etc

It's got nothing to do with protection anymore. It's about sports and being 'badass'. Who the hell needs a M16 to protect himself?

The gun lobby is pushing and pushing to make money and making shit even an army would be proud of. And then crazy people (Waco/Wacko) lock themselves in a farm...

Madness.

that's how this government stays in power.
misinformation, cover ups, threats from foreign powers. (911 is a different story) keep the masses stupid and confused. they even use each other - republicans vs democrats - and confuse the hell out of voters so they end up picking candidates with their eyes closed. in this day and age people are pretty much middle of the road than sticking to their registered party, and the government knows that.

from my earlier post about checks and balance, a citizen army cannot stand up to the u.s. military, so actually it's a false sense of security that the government provides to seem like a benevolent group. yeah, the government keeps us in fear, so we feel protected and safe, and trust our government to do things in our best interest like over spend on the military industrial complex for weapons that kill more efficiently, to keep the commies at bay, who don't exist anymore, so now the government needs a new enemy. bush had his chance after 911, but stayed in afghanistan too long.

to all those who say they have a gun for protection... guns CLEARLY are not a deterrent for crime in america, since it has a much higher crime rate than countries with tight firearm restrictions. crimes are STILL being comitted despite the fact that so many people have guns for protection. think about this and ask yourself....

1) if someone broke into your home to steal your tv, would you really be willing to murder him?? cause i'm almost certain if you miss, he won't even blink before killing you, so you better kill him first.

2) are you willing to start a firefight in your home? your family could be in serious danger. gunfights don't end til someone's dead.

3) when was the last time you read about someone foiling a thief with a gun? i've only read tragic stories where kids play with guns and end up killing/injuring someone. then again this could just be the one-sided coverage by the media. i dunno.

i thought long and hard about it, and even if it were the norm to own guns here in canada, i probably wouldn't because of the above reasons.

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Part of the problem with banning guns is the sheer number of them already in public circulation. If you make them illegal to obtain, criminals will still do so, because they are so plentiful that even without stores where you can buy them there are plenty to go around. If you make them illegal to possess, then no law-abiding citizen would have them, but plenty of criminals still would, because there are already hundreds of thousands if not millions of guns in general circulation, and if law-abiding citizens don't possess them, criminals will probably end up with them.

If you enforced gun control over a long period of time, it would reduce gun-related violence, eventually, but I suspect it might cause a dramatic short-term increase in crime since criminals would no longer fear that their target might have a gun.

Eventually, I would like to see some form of gun control here in America, but until the society is mature enough to accept such control, attempting to force it upon people who fervently believe they have an inherent right to bear arms is apt to cause more problems than benefits.

Cheers,

Arbiter

quote:

to all those who say they have a gun for protection... guns CLEARLY are not a deterrent for crime in america, since it has a much higher crime rate than countries with tight firearm restrictions. crimes are STILL being comitted despite the fact that so many people have guns for protection.

Yeah, but if we had nothing to protect ourselves with and the criminals still have what they attack us with then we are fucked now aren't we?

quote:

1) if someone broke into your home to steal your tv, would you really be willing to murder him?? cause i'm almost certain if you miss, he won't even blink before killing you, so you better kill him first.

No, I don't want to kill someone for trying to steal my TV. However if I walk out and see some guy stealing my TV and he pulls a gun on me I would have no qualms about shooting his ass on the spot. Now I probally wouldn't shoot him in the head, it would probally be the stomach or something just to stop him and keep him there, but I'd rather it be that than me walk out, see his face, and him go nuts and blow my fuckin head off. That happens here in this great country.

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2) are you willing to start a firefight in your home? your family could be in serious danger. gunfights don't end til someone's dead.

There would be no firefight. Either I shoot him or he shoots me. No exchange of fire. No time. Besides, I don't have a family, I live by myself.

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3) when was the last time you read about someone foiling a thief with a gun? i've only read tragic stories where kids play with guns and end up killing/injuring someone. then again this could just be the one-sided coverage by the media. i dunno.

Media sucks, don't it?

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"Oh NO! It seems the world has been infected by a disease called shitty music.
We've had innocculations for some time now but the populace keeps refusing it.
You don't want it? Fine. Give me all the vaccine and a needle and I'll fucking overdose.
It'll be the best day of my life."

quote:

Originally posted by SpykeChyld Yeah, but if we had nothing to protect ourselves with and the criminals still have what they attack us with then we are fucked now aren't we?

my whole point was that "protecting" yourself would most likely mean killing the thief... cause if you don't kill him, you've got a wild-west shootout in your home. if law abiding citizen like you is willing to pull a gun on someone, i'll bet the crook is just as willing to shoot you in the face.

quote:

Originally posted by SpykeChyld No, I don't want to kill someone for trying to steal my TV. However if I walk out and see some guy stealing my TV and he pulls a gun on me I would have no qualms about shooting his ass on the spot. Now I probally wouldn't shoot him in the head, it would probally be the stomach or something just to stop him and keep him there, but I'd rather it be that than me walk out, see his face, and him go nuts and blow my fuckin head off. That happens here in this great country.

again, if you pull a gun on him, he might kill you...
if you don't point a gun on him, he most likely won't harm you. no one is stupid enough to add murder to their petty theiving activities. i doubt he would "go nuts and blow" your head off...

it all boils down to your willingness to shoot someone. would you shoot someone over a tv? tvs can be recovered, lives cannot. how can you justify shooting a thief as self defence? (unless he held you up at gunpoint) if you shoot first, then he's the one acting in self defence.

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Actually, if I shoot(not kill, but shoot) a person who is trespassing on my property who I perceive to be a direct threat to myself, it is my self defense.

Look, all that is fine, but the point of this topic is that if you tighten gun laws and make it where I can't get a gun, the criminal on the corner CAN still get a gun and WILL still get a gun.

Now him having a gun and me not having one puts my life in more danger than if I just had something to protect myself with.

It's logic, if I have a gun and you don't, I win. No matter where I got the gun. No matter if it is registered or not. I win.

This is why I am against gun control. Well, that and a small thing called the constitution.

___________________
"Oh NO! It seems the world has been infected by a disease called shitty music.
We've had innocculations for some time now but the populace keeps refusing it.
You don't want it? Fine. Give me all the vaccine and a needle and I'll fucking overdose.
It'll be the best day of my life."

The problem with guns as self defense is he probably already has his out, and while you grab it he just shoots you.