I am Jewish, but I have to agree with fastmp3 that in the early stages of Israel's formation (and even now), there is a clash of cultures and some Jews don't have much in common with others.

I remember taking a history class in college where we watched a video how Israel's first schools and teaching camps were being created, and how there were a lot of cultural issues and troubles that had to be sorted out (particularly b/w Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Ethiopian, etc. other Jews)

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ok cyrus, I don't have the time to go into detail about all the errs you stated, so I'll be selective...

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Its these historical and stupid religious beliefs that has caused this war in the first place. I hate religion...its the cause of much blood shed in this world.

Religion is an excuse not the cause... we were fighting the soviets.. they weren't religious at all, yet that made them worse, so that point is mute.

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And palestinians on the other hand .... They dont want a neighbor who is on a heavy power trip

If you are suggesting that Israel is on a 'trip', you have to quantify this. Israel focus on having a powerful army, but this is due to no fluke of an overdose, except of reality and history.

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These military technologies were created for one purpose....TO KILL.

Just take a few seconds from your pissed off attitude to consider a suggestion as such. He simply states that with one side having overwhelming power, and this side being restrained and conscience the power they possess has helped control this situation and prevent more lives from being taken. Assume perhaps, that Israel only had 'rock bearers' as well. So to retaliate for a sucide attack, they would have to invade with a horde or rock pelters who would probably get killed, and would escalated the conflict further.

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There is more death on the palestinian side as a result of this defending.

Actually, in war it is a common understanding that the majority of casualties will be suffered from the offender on a factor of 3 to 1 versus the defender. So using this rule, we can put the above phrase at the exact opposite to void your point.

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... I will never forget what took place in Jenin. Remember...

Ok, since you didn't forget, can you remind me exactly what did happen there? And can you back it up with some proof for me?

Thanks.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King Its these historical and stupid religious beliefs that has caused this war in the first place. I hate religion...its the cause of much blood shed in this world.

im sorry you must differentiate between facts (history) and religion. in my opinion religion is not based on fact and so would be a stupid thing to judge by. however as i stated originaly history and the facts of the land are important to knew. they hold the key to truth.

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And palestinians on the other hand dont want to have neighbors with apache helicopters firing down on their civilians becuase of suicide bombers who choose to carry out their unfortunate beliefs. They dont want a neighbor who is on a heavy power trip

bingo we have a winner! in your statement you found the cause of it all. everything would end if there were no suicide bombers. why dont the palestinian people who are fed up with the swarming apaches, rise up agianst the terror that is spawned from withing, why dont they revolt agianst a corrupt regime that enslaves them and insures a future home for terrorist to contiue their assualt on israel, and by so re-enforcing the 'heavy power trip' israel is on?

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How is that not logical? Read what you wrote.

my point was simple, you said the new advanced weaponary sent to israel by the US has caused more death and i said that advanced weaponary does a better job and sparing and saving the lives of the innocents bystanders. you have to agree with that. would you rather assasnate a figure using a old school carpet bomb or would you rather have a direct hit from a laser guided missle.

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There is more death on the palestinian side as a result of this defending.

so? that is completely beside the point. more nazis died in WW2 as a result of their defending the empire from the allies. death count has no baring at all on the which side is morally right.

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Originally posted by fastmp3 Dennis Miller = Hitler , he can still try to blow the whole arab world if he wants

Gosh, ok this is a tad off topic but it is beyond me.

Why do you Arabs always go accusing someone who accuses Palestinians or supporters of being anti-Jewish, of being a Nazi or Hitler. It like happens every single time.

I mean for god sake, its like someone calls you an "idiot", and then you go and say "nuh oh.. your an idiot times 100".

Seriously, why does Dennis Miller = Hitler?

One was a ruthless mass murderning f0ckhead, the other a ruthless comedian. I'm sorry, I still am missing the parrellel.

What do you isreali supporters have to say about that.

http://www.time.com/time/personofth.../poysharon.html

In my opinion.... Sharon is a piece of fat shit who knows how to kill defenseless people... not wage a war..he is no worse than Bush. And take a look at the amounts of people on both sides that have been killed.

And to Yoepus.... if you dont even know what happened in Jenin this year... then you shouldnt be arguing. Oh yes... you live in America... they hardly braodcast that incident becuase first.... it would make the isreali government look evil.... and.. the Isreali military didnt let any reporters into that crushed town... not even first aid workers. Although i am surprised that CNN at the time did do some minute coverage on it.

And to Izzy... you cant compare Palestinian civilians to Nazi's... and if you say "SO" as your answer to the death of palestinian civilians.. then you are just as cold blooded as the murderers who shoot them in the many tactical ways excercised by the military.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King What do you isreali supporters have to say about that. http://www.time.com/time/personofth.../poysharon.html *WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU EXPECT FROM A COMPANY (AOL TIME-WARNER) WHO'S OWNER IS TED TURNER - THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS HE'S ANTI-SEMETIC!!* And to Yoepus.... if you dont even know what happened in Jenin this year... then you shouldnt be arguing. Oh yes... you live in America... they hardly braodcast that incident becuase first.... it would make the isreali government look evil.... and.. the Isreali military didnt let any reporters into that crushed town... not even first aid workers. Although i am surprised that CNN at the time did do some minute coverage on it. *HAHA - PROPOGANDA AT ITS FINEST!*

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It's kinda off topic, but I'm interested if anyone can tell me why did the arabs refuse the camp david agreement.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King blah blah blah... jenin jenin jenin.. wha wha wha... ooh sharon evil evil evil

I know exactly what happened in Jenin, but I would like to understand what you think happened. How many people died, how, when, why?

And as to Sharon, I don't think it even matters on the issues at debate.

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Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 It's kinda off topic, but I'm interested if anyone can tell me why did the arabs refuse the camp david agreement.

go start another thread elsewhere. as such a question will start one.
but if I were to give a short answer it would be; a. the palestinian leadership is not interested in peace or b. arafat never misses and opprotunity to miss an opprotunity.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King And to Izzy... you cant compare Palestinian civilians to Nazi's... and if you say "SO" as your answer to the death of palestinian civilians.. then you are just as cold blooded as the murderers who shoot them in the many tactical ways excercised by the military.

seems like you missed my point agian, i was not comparing how palestinians are like nazis, i was just showing that a death toll does not have any signaficance over how one should support a side over another. more northern vietnamese died in the vietnam war, should i support them? why should i support a side just because more have died? thats pathetic. does having more deaths on your side make you better? does it mean your goals hold a moraly higher ground?

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Last edited by Izzy on Dec-23-2002 at 16:10

Hitler = Hitler

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