quote:

Originally posted by sshyperion that's all fine and dandy but still doesn't really answer the thread's primary question: what would you do if you had the Fate of Trance in your hands? 'cause you know it's soooo nice to read about how we're all tards and that certain genres of trance are gone.

Ok, ok...

If I could decide the fate of Trance, I'd move it to Break- or Techtrance and the innovation of it...
I'd also give futurepop a good chance to hit the mainstream public. Perhaps more techno influences will be needed in this Industrial-type music. Better songs, better inspiration.

Ta hell with hardstyle, I'd say

What would I do with trance?

Try to combine the energy, experimentalism, and variety of pre-1995 trance with the mixing and mastering of 2008 trance.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles What would I do with trance? Try to combine the energy, experimentalism, and variety of pre-1995 trance with the mixing and mastering of 2008 trance.

I love classic trance with Cosmic Baby, Resistance-D etc. but recently i re-discovered how superb 97 and 98 trance was. People thing of 96, 97 and 98 trance, and instantly thing of the typical epic trance with the long breakdowns etc. This is how i remebered the era as well. Recently though, i played again "Forbidden Paradise 7-Deep Forest" and "Magik-2 Story of the Fall" by Tiesto (yea i know his name is "dirty" today but back then he was something of an underground hero of "Euro-trance" as they used to call this sound back then) and i was blown away by the music. I always thought of long breakdowns and stuff, but i was wrong. This stuff is totally comprised of pumping beats mixed with hypnotic gated chords, intense bass riffs, acid sequences and emotional arpeggios all harmonically mixed in an ever-flowing moving structure. I had complety forgot how this kind of melodic trance was sounding back then. I can't see why people say that sound had NOTHING to do with classic trance this is defintielly over-stretched. That sound was the natural evolution of Dance 2 Trance, Jam and Spoon, Cosmic Baby, Datura and Cygnus-X and it was indeed superb. People maybe confuse the era with the more mainstream,epic stuff released in '99 like "El-Nino", "Toca Me" or "Synaesthesia".

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN I can't see why people say that sound had NOTHING to do with classic trance this is defintielly over-stretched.

They're certainly related. It was much more of a continuous evolution than a sharp break. I can enjoy a lot of the stuff in the period you're talking about.

I love the kind of stuff that Sasha was playing from 1997 - 99, for example. Great melodic prog trance.

Last edited by MrJiveBoJingles on Mar-11-2008 at 23:05

make it darker and simpler

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i would send it on a 20 year journey to return to its homeland, constantly endangered by legion of unfriendly mythological creatures, desires of the flesh, self-doubt, and apathy.

Then I would devour its children and/or have sex with them on a mountain.

id instantly turn music production technology and computer technology back to how it was before 2000. and halt all advances in technology. back in those pre 2000 days i couldnt afford all the hardware and a decent pc to sequence on, so id not ba able to make music like i can now. but i know the music available would overall be better in the long run. and i think now im older with more money i would be able to fork out the £5-10k needed for a good studio back then.

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quote:

Originally posted by richg101 im older with more money i would be able to fork out the £5-10k needed for a good studio back then.

good for you.

too bad older folks tend to be jaded and not like trance, right?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles They're certainly related. It was much more of a continuous evolution than a sharp break. Personally, I don't mind a lot of the stuff that came out until around 1999, which is when the "who can make the biggest, baddest breakdown" contest became the whole goal of the more popular kind of trance, and its roots in techno were left behind for good. I love the kind of stuff that Sasha was playing from 1997 - 99, for example. Great melodic prog trance.

Exactly, trance started as a more melodic and hypnotic kind of techno (or the Germans' struggle in producing Detroit Techno, ending-up in...trance!) and continuously evolved into more and more melodic structures, ending-up in some wayyy-too anthemic tunes of '99. As you said, the change was not sudden and clear-cut though but gradual, linear and continuous, and as i look back at it now, great tunes appeared all over the 90s, from 91-99. Thing is that many people (including me) always thought of ALL trance coming from the second half of 90s as the wayy-too anthemic/epic type which is clearly not the case. Even in the second half of the 90s, the sound was slower, and retained the hypnotic and rhythmical components of the classic trance, components which completely dissapeared after the millenium. Yes, break-downs (and at times a bit long ones) indeed existed but they had nothing to do with the anthemic saw circus with the screaming melodies that were common in many releases of bloody mr. Ferry Corsten. It was more of a hypnotic and emotional gated melody repeating itself before all the components joining again and exploding in mid-tempo hypnotic dancing frenzy. Yes the sound was anthemic but then again, so were many (probably the most) classic trance releases.

You've probably heard these but just to remind.


Here's a tune from "Forbidden Paradise 7"

Steve Baltes- "My Style"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iyM...feature=related


and by "Magik-1 first flight"

The Voyager- "Back on Earth"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMRVu6WqciI


Edit:

As for sasha and digweed, if you mean stuff like northern exposure 2, as far as i remember that was a mix of typical british prog-house and the "Germanic/Dutch/Belgian" prog-euro (call it what you want) trance of the era which was identical to the ones appearing in Tiesto's first compilations (e.g. Dj Taucher, LSG, Transa). The boudnaries were not that clear-cut back them.

Last edited by PETRAN on Mar-11-2008 at 23:59

I'd have it evolve into 3 different sub-branches:

a) usually 125-130 BPM. Very interchangeable with tech-house and techno, borrowing both elements from it and from early 90s classic trance. Basically tech-house with an hypnotic feeling and more synthesizer/arpeggio layers than usual. Pretty much a continuation of the "neotrance" idea that seems to be dying. The perfect stuff if you're a crossover house/techno dj and want to incorporate some trance elements.

b) usually 132-138 BPM. Remember Sasha and Digweed's "Northern Exposure" series? Remember James Holden's early singles like I Have Put Out The Light and Way Out West's remix of Horizons? Remember later obscure Bonzai tracks like Float - Preparation? THAT sound. Slightly evolved into something intentionally more listening-oriented than club-oriented. We could label it "deep trance", even if this would technically be more "progressive trance" than anything else, just to separate it from the dying nonsense that progressive developed into. And to emphasize that this is meant to be a DEEP sound.

c) usually 138-145 BPM. Forget the last 5 or 6 years of trance. Remember how epic trance used to be played very fast-paced? Remember Paul Van Dyk pitching up tracks in insane amounts, like over +8%? Remember Tiesto's 1999->2000 new years eve Trance Energy set? I don't really like epic trance all that much any more, but it worked so much better at that speed. With that slightly hard edge. Funny thing is that those old 1993 Cosmic Baby tracks worked really well due to the same thing -> the speed those melodies kept going through the speakers. Let's fuse those two sounds together with one condition -> keep the amount of breakdowns and supersaws to a minimum.

With all sorts of crossover tracks between these 3 branches of course, but with most music being clustered into these 3 main ideas.

With an emphasis back on giving the audience a "human", full, dirty sound, rather than spending ages polishing those frequencies until every synth sounds absolutely 100% crystal clear. I hate that shit, whenever I hear it it always seems to have detracted from the creativity of the artist in actually writing the track. (I'm not sure if I've managed to describe correctly what I want here. )

With that soft, slow sound, heavily influenced by pop, rock and progressive house, dead and buried. Armin, Markus, Gabriel & Dresden: fuck off.

I wish so much that I had the patience and the skills to turn these ideas into music...

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As someone else said, make it simpler. Too much bloated shite from labels like anjunabeats with probably 100 or so tracks, it sounds shitty.

By the way, in this my idea of trance that I've just described, the psy scene would also remain unchanged and hopefully locked in a far, safe place, completely separate from it. Just to keep the hippies busy and make sure both themselves and their horrible noises don't crossover into the other trance scene.

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quote:

Originally posted by noikeee I'd have it evolve into 3 different sub-branches: a) usually 125-130 BPM. Very interchangeable with tech-house and techno, borrowing both elements from it and from early 90s classic trance. Basically tech-house with an hypnotic feeling and more synthesizer/arpeggio layers than usual. Pretty much a continuation of the "neotrance" idea that seems to be dying. The perfect stuff if you're a crossover house/techno dj and want to incorporate some trance elements.

If by "Neo-Trance" you mean melodic mnml like Gui Boratto and The Field, then it is defintielly not dying, since both albums received massive critical acclaim when they were released in 2007. The Field - "From Here We Go Sublime" was my number-1 EDM record of 2007 as well. It used basic 90s proto-EDM ideas like simple arpeggios and chopped vocal samples (music that refers back to both early British Prog-House like Spooky- "Gargantuan" and early German Trance) creating a simple and beautifull result. I would like to see that melodic mnml sound developing further.

I remember you raving about that album a couple months ago in some random thread, but I never could be arsed to go search for it.

Don't know why but I wasn't very impressed by Boratto's album, though.

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quote:

Originally posted by sleepydragon I dont know how u can compare the two

Because when you go on holiday, say for example you go to Disneyland, that's your enjoyment. But to the guy working at the cafe where you're having a coffee on a sunny day, it's a job.

Likewise, the music you enjoy, is what someone is doing for a living. They'll have off years, and they may hate their job, but they do it because they earn a lot. Who can blame them? Money and sales talk.

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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Social outcasts are often of the opinion that they must have a drink before being able to loosen up with their inhibitions, thus being able to have a good time. There's a word that sums up this sort of behaviour, and that word is 'reject.'

quote:

Originally posted by Soonmeister Much agreed mate. top 40 charts are horrible to listen to... if i remember rightly some EDM music beat some pop acts to the number 1 spot in the UK.. radio 1 on sunday evening.. it think i remember Delerium - Silence becoming No1 and stayed there for a couple of weeks or a week.. im not sure.. If i had the fate of trance id show people its true beauty and eductate mainstreamers that trance is not rip off un talented half wits like Dj Sammy or Special D ( Special D wat a fucking name ) and show them the reality of this beautiful genre and get as many people hooked as possible without arsehole labels and fuckwits trying 2 make a quick few £££ out of it for his/hers own stash Trance is a awesome and inspiring form of music that no other genre can replicate in any way LONG LIVE TRANCE Peace

Back in the day though some fairly credible trance tunes got into the charts, heaven scent, xpander, some tilt tracks if i remember etc.

Now it seems to get anywhere in the charts with a dance track it needs to be the cheesiest, most sugared up shite ever with the 'I love you you love me' vocals. Depressingly most people think of stuff like this when you tell them you're into dance.

this thread reminded me how much I miss meneedit.

i wouldnt change anything at all, id let it go the way it is now...let the music and the scene evolve naturally.

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AustralianGQ

quote:

Originally posted by AustralianGQ

...but then I realize what we have now and I feel satiated.

if i had the fate of trance in my hand i would crush it and make it so no one could ever make trance music as we know again, then maybe i could move on and make music that isn't trance.

quote:

Originally posted by piku303 if i had the fate of trance in my hand i would crush it and make it so no one could ever make trance music as we know again, then maybe i could move on and make music that isn't trance.

Like prance or something. 2-step dubby tranceballads. prance would own. Hard.

maybe music that ignores 4/4 all together...like techno waltz

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Promo this thread reminded me how much I miss meneedit.

that's almost a bannable offense

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quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Thing is that many people (including me) always thought of ALL trance coming from the second half of 90s as the wayy-too anthemic/epic type which is clearly not the case.

Definitely. A lot of classic trance labels continued to release trance, that was equally good (and sometimes even better) than pre-95 trance. Superstition, Platipus (Platipus used to licence a lot of records from Superstition in the late 90's), MFS... just to name a few. Not everyone abandoned trance completely. For example, Cal-Q-Lator - Can We Go Now (Cybersexual Remix) released by MFS in 1998 probably kills 90% of tracks released by the same label in 91-95 period. Some other acts that were releasing great trance in the mid and late 90's: Terra Ferma, Humate, Pob, Quadran, Oliver Lieb, Fade, Mijk Van Dijk, The Forth, Marc Mitchell, Quietman...

quote:

Originally posted by sljiva Definitely. A lot of classic trance labels continued to release trance, that was equally good (and sometimes even better) than pre-95 trance. Superstition, Platipus (Platipus used to licence a lot of records from Superstition in the late 90's), MFS... just to name a few. Not everyone abandoned trance completely. For example, Cal-Q-Lator - Can We Go Now (Cybersexual Remix) released by MFS in 1998 probably kills 90% of tracks released by the same label in 91-95 period. Some other acts that were releasing great trance in the mid and late 90's: Terra Ferma, Humate, Pob, Quadran, Oliver Lieb, Fade, Mijk Van Dijk, The Forth, Marc Mitchell, Quietman...

Yep these are all great! What i was specifically saying though was that (IMO) EVEN the anthemic post-95 sound (up to 99), wasn't similar to the 99+ super-saw dutch sound, or the british Epic-Trance records that appeared in the end of the 90s such us "Greece 2000", "El Nino", "Synaesthesia", "Saltwater" etc. and started to dominate the scene. I recently gave a listen (after many years) to Tiesto's (wow dirty name!) "Forbidden Paradise 7-deep forest mix"(1998), and except for a few tracks such us "Greece 2000", all the other tracks, which possibly represented the standard anthemic trance of 98, weren't as cheesy and watered-down as the "epic-trance" that we all know now today. Yes, the tracks had clear melodic themes, breakdowns and buildups, but these were not performed by means of fast-paced grooveless beats, super-saw screaming lead-lines and fat pads. They were rather more mid-tempo, groovy, hypnotic, with nice gated melofies which were emotional (not cheesy) and hypnotic ay the same time. Yes, it was not like the classic post-techno trance sound, but neither like the saw circus that dominated the scene after 2000 (blame bloody Ferry Corsten for that!). It was rather between the two and i have to say i like the sound a lot (not as much as Resistance-D though lol).


I mean even if you hear a track like Dj Taucher- "Atlantis" (an anthem of 97 or 98 i can't remember) it is not like the BIG tracks of 99 (like "El Nino", or "Saltwater"),but IMO it is closer to the stuff that Jam and Spoon were doing with pumping beats, acid lines and dreamy riffs. Sadly enough , due to the fact that all these stuff were played by the same djs (ehmm...Tiesto-although he was unknown in 98), people usually mash all these into one category. I personally can't state that sound as "Epic trance", the stuff i mention like Moonman, Transa, Dj Taucher, Razor's Edge, LSG-of that period-the first alliases of tiesto like Hammock Brothers and the first tracks by Allure like "Rejected" etc. plus possibly the stuff you mention like Pob and Humate. In Greece they used to call this second-half-of-90s sound "Euro-Trance" but...whatever.

Last edited by PETRAN on Mar-13-2008 at 00:12

i would give it a js16 remix

Kill it and then allow it to regrow after some years then repeat. Kinda like the in matrix, each time it is essentially the same but there are differences

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec too bad older folks tend to be jaded and not like trance, right?

i think this is wrong. i think you are going on the general shitty vibe in this forum. I know i say how i feel on here, but a large number i can see right through and see they are not saying how they feel, but are just joining the 'disgruntled brigade' because they assume it makes them appear more elite. a large number of british trance listeners are older and i assume other countries in the same musical development are similar. i mean, if 1999 was the biggest year of trance, then the listeners were between 16-25(to be in the clubs really living the year) so add on 9 yrs and you have a minimum age of 24 as people who actually went through the trance year and felt it how it was at its peak.

i think my previous suggestion would make things better. picture a 19yr old using fruity loops. he listens to something he likes and tries to replicate it. through his short life he has not sat through enough musical progession to be able to harness a good base of influence.
Now, take the same guy when he is 25 yrs old... He will have sat through at least two more musical progessions/fads than the 19 yr old.

Now, if you take two different people. one 25 and one 19 yr old. the 25yr old will have heared way more music and is a lot more likely to have an amalgamation of influences. it means he is more likely to create something original.

many will say there are lots of really good producers who are younger, and i agree to some extent. I still think whatever they are doing at 19 will be improved upon if they had those 6 more years experience of music and life, and maybe need to spend proper money to fulfil their demands as a musician.

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If I had the fate of trance in my hand... I'd... I'd...

SLAP it in a large mixing bowl with googly-eyes and start pouring ingredients from other musics... tee-hee-hee...

"A cup of IDM..."
"A twist of Funk..."
"A dollop of industrial..."
"Eat your heart out, Julia Child......"

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** If You had the fate of trance in your hand... I would consider more closely that the doctor is right in thinking I am delusional, and resolve why it is just one hand and not two. Make a mantra what is the sound of one hand holding the fate of trance. and meditate closely waiting for a voice from above to guide me, and not tell the doctor what I am doing or why.

Now, thats an epic response...

quote:

Originally posted by ******** If You had the fate of trance in your hand... I would consider more closely that the doctor is right in thinking I am delusional, and resolve why it is just one hand and not two. Make a mantra what is the sound of one hand holding the fate of trance. and meditate closely waiting for a voice from above to guide me, and not tell the doctor what I am doing or why.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** If You had the fate of trance in your hand... I would consider more closely that the doctor is right in thinking I am delusional, and resolve why it is just one hand and not two. Make a mantra what is the sound of one hand holding the fate of trance. and meditate closely waiting for a voice from above to guide me, and not tell the doctor what I am doing or why.

This is effortlessly the best post I've ever read on TA.

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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This is effortlessly the best post I've ever read on TA.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** If You had the fate of trance in your hand... I would consider more closely that the doctor is right in thinking I am delusional, and resolve why it is just one hand and not two. Make a mantra what is the sound of one hand holding the fate of trance. and meditate closely waiting for a voice from above to guide me, and not tell the doctor what I am doing or why.

This is, quite simply, the most perfect description of trance I've ever read.

Sell it to Microsoft.

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quote:

Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

Trance is perfect as it is.

quote:

Originally posted by ******** If You had the fate of trance in your hand... I would consider more closely that the doctor is right in thinking I am delusional, and resolve why it is just one hand and not two. Make a mantra what is the sound of one hand holding the fate of trance. and meditate closely waiting for a voice from above to guide me, and not tell the doctor what I am doing or why.

:clap:

:clap:

:clap:

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quote:

Originally posted by Linden Flowers I would crush trance with a cement truck. Then bury it under the ocean in a block of concrete for 100 years. Then I would have it dug up and shot into space.

this thread reminds me of my love for w ashley

quote:

Originally posted by basd Missing who?

Gabriel & Dresden